Re: mode v. theme v. style

On Sep 13, 2:38 pm, s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Jonathan L Cunningham)
wrote:
Brian M. Scott <b.sc...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:57:18 +0100, Jonathan L Cunningham
<s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
<news:1i4cpy9.1qyqwsbq2n23jN%spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:

Patricia C. Wrede <PWrede6...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

[...]

You could just get a copy of the Concise Oxford
Dictionary of Literary Terms from the library. Or
perhaps there's a non-concise one that'd be even better.

No, I don't think so. The COD definitions are mostly
interesting for their inadequacy. I'd give them a D-,
maybe a D for effort, but I don't rate them much higher
than that.

In any case, they do *not* appear to be how we are using
most of the terms on rasfc. To be honest, I think that we
(and you!) are able to talk about these things much more
clearly than the (clearly) bafflegab COD definitions.

<blink>

Can you say why you feel this way? I thought them for the
most part both rather good and in keeping with local usage.
We do have a more detailed terminology for discussing PoV,
and we do recognize 'genre as marketing category', but
that's relatively minor.

I did say I'd review the situation today!

I like to start with *sharp* and clear definitions, especially for fuzzy
categories. I can add the fuzz later.

There are actually two quite distinct reasons I want a glossary: one for
communication, so I understand what other people are talking about, and
one for thinking with, so I can think about things.

I forgot to mention that!

I intend[*] to reply more fully to Patricia's post later, but take one
example:

"Theme: A salient abstract idea that emerges from a literary
work's treatment of its subject-matter; or a topic recurring
in a number of literary works."

Wooly, woolly, wooly! Vague!

Ok, as a description of how people /use/ the term, it may be adequate.
When someone talks about "theme" you know you need to spend fifteen
minutes finding out what they mean.

But as a definition for /thinking/ about writing, it's too vague and
wooly to be of much use. It's almost as bad as my attempted definition!
After I'd abandoned it!

OK, have some random NIcky thoughts on the subject. I'm not going to
atempt a definition
I'll just ramble on for a bit.

I sometimes think about theme when I'm trying to get a handle on the
kind of thing I want to
write next. So I think I'd like to write something which reminds me
of 1984, something dark about betrayal and uncertainty. I tried this
and actually the book ended up being about
love and sacrifice because all my books do end up being about that. On
the basis of personal writing experience, I draw a distinction between
ideas I want to explore and put into a story deliberately
and themes which emerge because they are part of my personal hard
wiring and underpin the
kinds of things I'm likely to write about. For a reader there is
probably no distinction between them , but I think from a writer's
position they are distinct and I only really take responsibility for
the deliberate ones.


Sometimes when people talk about theme they almost seem to mean - the
moral , the meaning of a
story - say - one evil deed generates more, but more often theme is
less a meaning but a recurrent idea which informs not just in the main
plot but the sub plots too and which can be underlined by the use of
recurrent imagery etc
. A writing friend of mine was telling me about her YA novel which
was about breaking free of the past in which references to open
windows and doors represented the possibility of change throughout the
story.Similarly I could pretend that the many references to mirrors in
my forthcoming book was my backbrains's way of reinforcing the books
general thematic interest in identity ( boll**** I hear you cry)

You can communicate the theme of the book any number of way. It kind
of leaks through the gaps between the words, slips out of the
character's mouths and lurks in odd unexpected corners in the imagery
and in the twists and turns of the plot. A common route to expressing
theme is to return to key background details - eg the turbulence and
uncertainty of life might be reflected in the author's persistent
reference to strange weather and gently decaying buildings. It also
often turns up through the writer's use of repeated expressions, plot
constructions, character flaws - all the great whathaveyou of writing.

I don't think you have to have a theme, but in fact most things I have
written have had several. You tend to see them when you look at the
whole - a bit like those tests for colour blindness: you look at the
random dots of plot and lo there is your theme suddenly clearly
highlighted in bright yellow procaiming something that takes you by
surprise.

That's all the woffle I have time for now.

Nicky


.

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