Re: Questions (Space)

Jonathan L Cunningham <spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jonathan L Cunningham <spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The point is, that it's the little balls of metal that are the
things that move. If you think of light as made of photons, it is
the photons that move,

Photons would be something I can imagine even, but no one mentioned
them. (I would like to know more about how they come to be, though.)

I imagine them as little fuzzy balls, about 10cm across for light, or
about 1 km across for radio wave photons. It's not true, but just how
I imagine them.

Is that the same way that an electron can be seen as having the size of
its atom, even though it's just whizzing around and the 'size' seen is
just the space it travels through?

Because I would think those particles are a lot smaller (and certainly
visible if that big). I mean, bowling balls whizzing around _ougth_ to
be noticed, even ones without weight. <g>

Because they can get through small holes, it might help to think of
them as fuzzy balls made out of something like sponge, or foam
rubber, that can be scrunched up small, and then pops out full size
again.

I don't think that works. Somehow, I don't expect them to scrunch up
just to get through a hole, I expect them to fit through because they're
so tiny.

Or maybe like some kind of sticky fog, which remains in a clump and
doesn't dissipate. (So it can float through a mesh, people can walk
through the big ones (radio photons) etc.)

I think I'll stick to 'space they're occupying' rather than imagining
all those man-sized ballons. There would be much less lighting here if
they were the size of balloons. (Because there would be no room for the
neighbours inside the balloon.)

But what you're trying to say is that that space is indeed a physical
change in location (other than forwards), the wave?

I don't like that. It gets me back to what I didn't understand right at
the start; physical 2D waves in 3D.

I don't usually think about what they're made of though. Just how
they behave.

Well, they originate somewhere.

For a wave motion, *nothing* moves from A to B. If you think of
light as an EM wave (instead of photons), then nothing physical
moves.

Where's the problem in assuming that the photons create a wave when
measured (like you do with electrons)?

No problem at all, if you like it.

But now I'm confused. Because I got to think that the wave is just
measured, not something that happens _with_ the photon.

I just don't see the problem people say there is when trying to
reconcile the theories. There must be one; the folks dealing with
this sure know a lot more than I.

Mostly, they do the maths. Mathematicians don't *need* a picture to
do maths (or they have the sort of picture which doesn't make sense
to anybody else).

That would make me a mathematician. :) (I used to like maths, too.)

But the wave is just the intensity (rising and falling), no? They
don't

I've no idea what the wave is. Sometimes it's called a "probability
wave". I can't see any way for this to make sense. I know what is
*meant* by it. Meanings don't have to accord with common sense.

Does reality have to make sense?

Huh?

Looks like you're losing interest. Better say so than confirm images
that don't make sense.

So since light is both particle and wave, it both travels and
doesn't travel. At this point, anyone whose head isn't hurting
hasn't understood the problem! :-)

You're right there. I don't understand the problem. :) (And my head
isn't hurting, yet.)

Usually people get confused when told that something both travels and
doesn't travel. You may be an exception. Perhaps you'll have the big
insight which makes sense of quantum mechanics ... trouble is, no one
will believe you because you don't do the math. (And most of the rest
of us wouldn't understand this big insight anyway.)

Nothing new there. I'm used to insights no one understands. :)

It's just a shame that I don't know all this stuff, and thus no
insights.

--
Tina
WIP: Space: 1317 words
WISuspension: Seasons & Elements trilogy | Magic Earth series
Posted to Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.composition.

.

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