Re: What SF is written and read?

On 9 Jul 2006 21:06:36 -0700, ShellyS wrote:

Morgan Ohlson wrote:
On 8 Jul 2006 20:53:56 -0700, ShellyS wrote:

(snip)

My point is that it could be of interest to know about what genres or
carachteristics is preferred by readers. Just because only a small
alteration i story or writing style could improve the possibility of success
a lot. ...I guess.


I'm a public librarian. I've been one for 24 plus years and counting.
I've been seeing what people like reading for all that time and the one
conclusion I've come up with is that most people read things I don't
like and that I don't like to write. I've also learned that when it
comes to science fiction, the average person thinks Star Trek is
science fiction. We have plenty of readers who want that when they ask
for SF. Or Harry Potter for fantasy.

Actually, you give a glimps on what I thought vould be the case... Some over
balance towards action or adventure SF. Shallow? Pre defined context? Fixed
expectations? At least not what most would consider to be "real SF".

I just lost what I'd typed, so here's the short version. I call it a
lack of education or experience with SF and/or fantasy. I was fortunate
to be raised by parents who liked SF and had it in the house. My father
is a space buff, so I've loved anything with space travel while I was
growing up in the '60s. I read superhero comics. None of my friends
liked any of that.

The labels SF or fantasy or mystery or romance are marketing tools used
by publishers and by libraries and bookstores to help folks find
similar books to the ones they've read and liked. In recent years, a
lot of SF and fantasy books are published as "general fiction" to
"trick" folks into buying them. ;) Libraries used to shelve fantasy
with fiction, while giving SF its own section because it had space
ships and aliens and was identifiable, nevermind that fantasy had elves
and fairies, to oversimplify. More recently, many of us stuck fantasy
titles in with the SF books. And given the arguments over what's
fantasy and what's SF, I consider the whole issue of genre labels to be
a waste of time. I appreciate their usefulness while hating their
existence. Call me conflicted on the issue.

(snip)

Readers can be fickle, moving on to the next "great thing." And what's
being read today was bought by publishers on average, 2 years before
and what they're buying now won't get published for a year or two on
average, maybe longer.

In such aspects or qualities in books that may relate to readers needs on a
entertainment - depth scale it's not very likely that any major chages takes
place. Those dimensions is not likely matter of day to day trends. Perhaps
in long time periods according to school system changes etc...

Depends on what you consider major. A shift from fantasy like Harry
Potter to books about sentient unicorns because a year from now a book
about a sentient unicorn becomes a major bestseller would be typical of
the market and how it can shift and yes, be a major change because if
you're writing a book about a kid studying magic, your ms could be
passe before you get it submitted.

Yes, but still I think the Harry Potter trend could have been predicted as
some kind of Rollplaying-retrospective... probably also non actively
supported by "new-age-believers"... and adults that can't stand reading
mature texts.


If that's what you want to write,
fine, but if you would've preferred writing about unicorns, you'd be a
step or two behind. Or maybe you really wanted to write a Romeo and
Juliet type story with a gnome and an elf, but hey, why should you if
no one's reading it because no one's had one published yet. That's how
frivilous this argument sounds to me.

Whouldn't it be fun to rewrite somting old, classic but just, simply put in
elfs and hobgobblins in it? :oD That would be crazy.


I don't know when my ms will be ready to submit,
so knowing what people would want to read then means I need to build a
time machine so I can go forward a few years to find out. It's simply
not worth it.


I write what I have in me to write. It's all I can write. What you're
suggesting might work for some writers, but based on what every writer
I've met online and in person has said, it doesn't work for them,
either. And I fully agree with Patricia's post about how changing the
setting or genre, etc. would change the story.

I understand that is true fore some, but possibly not for others. I believe
it's a question about what one regard as story. My oppinion is that a
Shakespear drama can be moved from Europe to a Wild West setting, or a Ninja
context and still be the same story. But thats ofcause an oppinion.

My opinion/conclusions are based on reading what writers (published and
unpublished) have said over the 10 plus years I've been on writers'
message boards and listservs and reading their blogs. What do you base
your opinion on?

The fact that also writers, in interviews etc express their process of
writing in completly different words. Some lock them selves up with som
can-food and write a month until ready. Others create, write and rewrite
many years for one book. Although there is most likely a mainstream...


And yes, Shakespeare (or any plot) can be moved from setting to
setting, genre to genre. Shakespeare has been adapted a lot. West Side
Story is just one example, being a modernized Romeo and Juliet. But the
stories are different, despite a lot of similarities. Could the same
writer do it either way? Maybe. But I suspect most would prefer and be
better equipped to write it one way. The way most folks use "story," it
includes all the bits and pieces, characters, setting, plot threads,
beginning, middle, end, and all the words. Plot is what the story is
hung on.

I'm most likely ambigous on this as I'm not a english native and use the
words improperly.


My WIR can only be
written as I've written. In any other setting or genre, it would be a
very different story and not one I'd want to tell.

What do you say about I. Asimovs writing? Usually very straight forward
storyline, isn't it? Do you like it?

I read Asimov and Clarke throughout the '60s and '70s. I kinda outgrew
them, as I felt the need for books that had more than nifty ideas. I
wanted books that were more literary, ones that had more interesting
characters. Actually, I prefer a lot of Clarke's work to Asimov's. And
I prefer deeply complex storylines to simple ones.

In general yes, but in SF ideas has it's place...which I understand you mean
too.

Every book has ideas. Ideas aren't the exclusive property of SF. But if
SF was mostly just ideas, I would have lost interest years ago.

Just ideas would be spece debate or something, not SF...?



But, as with any book, even a simple story can be wonderful if it's
well told and emotionally involving. I love books that make me feel
something as well as make me think.

In my oppinion a good SF should not be possible to read through without
stops and reflexion.

Which of course doesn't say anything about how to write it or what you
should write. Do you want to write what you like to read, or what you
think will sell or that readers will buy or borrow? What if most
readers don't want to read what you like in SF? Would you want to write
it anyway?

I may be able to dress in differnt suites... but I don't say that it would
reach the store shelves.


As for books that make me think, I never do that while reading. Only
after, when it all sinks in. When I read, I read to find out what
happens. That's why I write, too.

I couldn't write that way. Probably my perspective is som ekind of
perfection or fall.


So, how does Asimov's writing fit in with your question about readers
and writing?

I don't know, but perhaps it is easier to sell books like Asimov. The
StarTrek-factor is perhaps higher compered to more sofisticated stories.
Asimov is also an example, in my oppinion ...of what's real SF, but not
emotional.

I doubt it would be as easy to sell books like Asimov now as it was
20-30 years ago. I think the general, true SF reader is more
sophisticated now. And unless it has mass cross appeal, like Harry
Potter, odds are an Asimov-like book would not reach a larger audience.
Asimov's books were considered by many to be too techy. Years ago, at a
meeting of Young Adult librarians, I was on a panel doing a
presentation of Science Fiction and Fantasy for the Non-SF and Fantasy
Reader. We included some classics, but most of the titles were
non-tech, social science type books, or ones that were fun. With such
titles, we were able to convince many of our colleagues to try the
genres they thought were too technical or weird for their tastes. And
some even liked the books on our list.

For me, who actually didn't read any books besides SF (except student
litterature etc) the last years there is no conflict between std litterature
and SF since the non futuristic books doesn't exist in my world.


Some years ago I tried to get a book on democracy published. One publisher
told their truth:
"Last years we get a manuscript on negativ society or democracy analysis
every month or more. The truth is that they are totally impossible to sell
if not the writer is a famous politician, economist or alike. Sorry, we
can't even take the time to read your script."

I'm guessing that was non-fiction? Fiction operates differently.
Stories are as varied as the writers. Democracy doesn't. And
non-fiction tends to be considered educational, so the authority of the
writer is more important than with fiction.

And until a publisher tells you, sorry, I just bought a novel about an
elven motorcycle gang, you don't know that yours won't sell. And even
then, maybe another publisher wants a ms about elven motorcyclists,
too.

Perhaps I should wite a novel on elven bikers? ;o)


Morgan O.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: What SF is written and read?
    ... The point of writing for me is to tell a story about people facing ... We have plenty of readers who want that when they ask ... But genre and such labels are often artificial, ... books, including SF, that has a lot of character development, something ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: What SF is written and read?
    ... The point of writing for me is to tell a story about people facing ... We have plenty of readers who want that when they ask ... But genre and such labels are often artificial, ... books, including SF, that has a lot of character development, something ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: Best last lines
    ... and readers of one another who have been masquerading as ... There's a REASON those books get taught in lit courses. ... I do think SF and fantasy get shortchanged by the litcrit ... ones that mainstream literature governs itself by... ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)
  • Re: What SF is written and read?
    ... We have plenty of readers who want that when they ask ... Or Harry Potter for fantasy. ... similar books to the ones they've read and liked. ... setting or genre, ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: Death/violence in YA fiction
    ... of fantasy violence" because "fantasy" isn't a separate marketing category ... the way it is in adult fiction. ... out books on reading ability, teachers do pay attention to content. ... Choosing age appropriate material has little to do with genre. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
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