Re: Hmm - here's a topic to spark off a nice social commentary thread..

In message <dk7la25mc5otjlbrd4aq054e1bfrqnvkjq@xxxxxxx>, Alma Hromic Deckert <anghara@xxxxxxxxx> writes
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:02:19 +1200, zeborah@xxxxxxxxx (Zeborah) wrote:

Nicola Browne <nicky.matthews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Although I'm instinctively averse to Rich's advice
because of what I felt it implied, I am also very much inclined
not to owe anyone anything : )

Yes, I don't like feeling I'm in debt at all, to anyone, so I'd prefer
to pay my own way. But even if for whatever reason the other person
pays for me, and I thereby become in some sense indebted to them, they
have *no* right nor reason to have the thought even enter their mind
that I'll pay off that debt with any form of sexual activity. If they
want to be paid back they can damn well take cash.

Let's escalate this, just a tad.

My dad went to a conference at some point, where he met this
personable and brilliant Canadian gentleman and issued, as you do in
those circumstances, an invitation along the lines of "if you're in
Cape Town (which is where we were living at the time) look me up" -
never expecting the guy to actually follow up on it. They were casual
conference acquaintances, after all.

Well, the fellow did; there was a phone call, and dad explained the
situation to myself and my mother, and so we waited for the visit. I
don't know WHAT it was that I was expecting, but what turned up was a
tall, dark and handsome man in his early forties who actually did
bizarre and rather intriguing things like, when he was introduced to
me, kissing my hand, I was 26; he was, oh, maybe 43 at the time.

Well, we took him around on a tour, dad and me, and he was pleasant
and courteous to both of us, and then, after he left, he sent us a
book that he had written - inscribed to BOTH of us, although I was not
in any way shape or form an economist - and *gettng my father's name
wrong*. I wrote to him to thank him, and pointed that out. He wrote
back to me. A charming and lively correspondence ensued during which
it was obvious that the man was, well, I'm not sure what the word is -
courting me was probably too strong, flirting was a little too weak,
shall we say exibiting a strong and unequivocal interest.

This went on for quite some time - he was single and available, I was
single and available, yes there was an age difference but I was never
that frightened by the years and somehow I have a track record of most
of my boyfriends or partners being a little or a LOT older than I was,
so the age difference didn't bother me. He was also wealthy. At some
point, after this social friendship/coorespondence had reached a
certain point, he proposed that I should come and visit him in Canada.
He offered to pay for my tickets. I would, apparenly, be staying with
him.

And ALL my warning bells and whistles went off. How much was I worth,
really? The price of an air ticket to Canada? Should I demand first
class...? The issue was never spelled out, but it was fairly obvious
that sex was on the menu if I should accept this invitation - and if I
did, then I would be obliged to provide it since the price paid would
have been commensurately higher than just a dinner date.

I compromised, and suggested we meet on neutral ground, in ENgland,
for a mutual holiday - if something happened when we met again, it
happened, but I wouldn't feel bought and paid for since I'd be making
my own way there and paying my own way WHILE there with the possible
exception of the odd meal out. We did this, and no, the relationship
didn't evolve into anything more serious, and in teh ensuing years I
exhchanged a few Christmas cards with him and once, when I was passing
through the city where he lives on quite a different errand, I phoned
him up and we had a nice pleasant chat - but neither of us suggested
reviving the romance. That was where it ended.

Now, you might consider this an extreme example of insisting on "going
dutch" - but the way I looked at it was like this. If he had asked me
out to dinner - just dinner, say back in Cape Town while he was there
- I would have gone along, and he would have paid for it because
that's what he did, but I would have had no feeling of obligation
beyond a goodnight kiss (of whatever degree of passion; that would
depend on what happened when weDID exchange that first kiss). Inviting
me to another country on his ticket was, for me, beyond what I could
see as being... well... let's just say I would have felt bought and
paid for, and the idea left a nasty taste in my mouth. But that was
radical, extravagant, even blatant in a way. I simply cannot see an
ordinary dinner at the local Olive Garden, for instance, as an
equivalent thing. A nice dish of pasta primavera does not translate
into an evening of passion to follow - even if the guy DID pay for my
share. When and if that fellow and I decided that it might be time to
take things further, it would be a mutual decision, and not one
measured in who owed what to whom.

A.

I'm not sure the buying of the ticket makes any difference, it would be the staying with him part that pretty much said 'and we will have sex together while you are here'.

Of course, he could have said, 'I realise this may seem like an inappropriate suggestion but I assure you there are no strings attached, it just would be lovely to see you. I'd be equally happy to get you a hotel room nearby or have you stay at my sister's house with her family.' (or whatever)

The fact that he didn't say that was what would have set my alarm bells off more than him paying for tickets.

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hmm - heres a topic to spark off a nice social commentary thread..
    ... Yes, I don't like feeling I'm in debt at all, to anyone, so I'd prefer ... that I'll pay off that debt with any form of sexual activity. ... want to be paid back they can damn well take cash. ... have been commensurately higher than just a dinner date. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: OT: Why I Hate Liberals
    ... No problem I went online and paid the ticket (never mind the dike bitch ... But I cannot pay that online because they will ask ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)
  • Re: OT: How income taxes really work!!
    ... ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all ten ... If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, ... The first four men would pay nothing. ...
    (rec.sport.pro-wrestling)
  • Re: OT: Why I Hate Liberals
    ... No problem I went online and paid the ticket (never mind the dike bitch ... But I cannot pay that online because they will ask ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)
  • Re: OT: Why I Hate Liberals
    ... No problem I went online and paid the ticket (never mind the dike bitch ... But I cannot pay that online because they will ask ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)