Re: Thomas Covenant series

Constantinople wrote:


Chris Dollin wrote:
David Friedman wrote:

But then, we use the measuring equipment constructed using those
theories precisely because we have evidence that it actually measures
something real.

No, we don't - if we have evidence of anything, it's evidence of
/consistency/.

To say that two statements are consistent with each other is to say
that they could both be true at the same time.

Yes.

Truth concerns reality.

I like to think so. It's part of my worldview. But it's not a /given/.
I'm not really sure it means anything to say it.

So the idea of consistency is based on the idea of reality. (I'm aware
that some folks try to keep consistency while dropping reality, but
they've made a mistake.)

The idea of consistency may historically and psychologically have
arisen from what happens - although to see consistency /presumes/
that there's some idea of "same" to ground it, so I'm not sure
how the bootstrap converges - but that doesn't mean it depends on
it.

You're assuming in advance that there's this "real
world" thing.

That we are dealing with this "real world" thing is a hypothesis, one
well tested and well confirmed.

I don't see how you can falsify it, so the "confirmations" are
empty (scientifically speaking). How would you tell that the world
isn't "real"?

That same hypothesis is frequently made
and falsified - when we dream.

That's not how /I/ experience dreaming. When dreaming, I don't hypothesise
that the world is real. (For that matter, I don't do so when I'm awake,
either.)

(Of course, you can say that by "real world" you /mean/
the consistent picture that emerges from these perceptions that you
ascribe to "instrument readings", but then you've detached the term
from the intuitive grounding you wanted.)

To say that two perceptions are consistent with each other is to say
that they could both be accurate perceptions at the same time, and
accuracy concerns reality.

No, it means that you can formulate a single theory which isn't
falsified (ie generates a contradiction) by the conjunction of
the perceptions. That's not (necessarily) to do with reality,
it's to do with construction (and the effort necessary).

You can go a long way treating theories as useful instruments which
make sense of your perceptions without requiring that there be some
"thing", reality, that grounds them - after all, what /extra/ does
this thing do for you that the theories don't?

Myself, I find that instrumentalist view unappealing. But I try hard
(when I remember) to avoid confusing "unappealing" with "false" and
"appealing" (or "intuitive") with "true".

--
Far-Fetched Hedgehog
Notmuchhere: http://www.electric-hedgehog.net/
Otherface: Jena RDF/Owl toolkit http://jena.sourceforge.net/
.

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