Re: (OT)Neandertal mtDNA/ mull that over


"Sherrie Lee" <sherriel383@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1156333228.150770.50450@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Michael Cook wrote:
Reading up on Neandertal mtDNA i found this:

"In the search for human ancestors, scientists focus on factors that
supposedly show whether the remains are human or not. But bipedalism,
brainsize, toolmaking, and language do not give a full explanation, and
scientists have not fully defined what Homo sapiens is. Theosophical
ideas
claim that every living being is a throw-off of humanity -- the further
away
from the human kingdom, the farther back in time -- and that all these
aspire to the kingdoms above them. Perhaps our division of the world
into
mineral, plant, animal, and human kingdoms is less than adequate.
Moreover,
can we consider ourselves fully human? Generally we claim reflective
self-consciousness as exclusively human, but what if self-consciousness
is
not our fully-evolved state? Suppose being human involves a universal
consciousness beyond self-consciousness: an awareness of our intimate
connection with all life. That is the part of us that seems to be
evolving
now. What if all of nature's kingdoms have some degree of evolving
awareness? Could humanity's true origin be the evolving awareness
inherent
in nature itself? The theosophical philosophy points out that an
all-pervasive consciousness is the fabric of the universe and connects
every
living thing. Perhaps the fact that human beings can sense their
interconnectedness with life implies that instead of subjugating and
abusing
other life forms because we have the power to do so, our task is to work
with all beings in nature in their aspiration to higher forms and
consciousness.

Ultimately, most of what makes us human is invisible. We will not find
it in
the excavated forms of the past. In the development of paleoanthropology
with its evolution theory, there is something essential that scientists
are
not considering: the consciousness of our fundamental connection with
all
life -- a fully human consciousness that is totally humane. Without it
we
will never understand our own past nor know which way to go in the
future."

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/evol/ev-ibel2.htm

What do you think about that?


The accepted opinion has Neanderthal out of Africa and established across
Europe before Cro-Magnon (us) mtDNA extracted from Neanderthal remains shows
that Neanderthal made no contribution to the genetic make up of modern man.
My assumption was that we assimilated the late Neanderthal through breeding,
but that is not the case, we could not have produced offspring. Maybe a
thing like one gets when you cross a horse and a donkey and Horse-donkey
hybrids are almost always sterile.
"Mating among our ancestors probably occurred in the context of small,
mobile hunter-gatherer tribes. As with most primates, social life was
probably centered on matrilines (female kin groups and their offspring),
with the males largely fending for themselves, hovering around the
periphery, and trying to insinuate themselves into the powerful female
bands (see Dunbar, 1988). Under these conditions, the central mating
problem for males was inseminating mature, attractive, viable, fertile
females (Buss & Schmidt, 1993). The central mating problem for females was
obtaining good sperm and good genes from high-quality males, and perhaps
some provisioning and protection from a few males whose presence was not
more trouble than it was worth. Equally unlikely are the tough-minded view
of the Pleistocene as a brutal, male-dominated era of continuous warfare,
frequent rape, and anarchy (e.g. Ardrey, 1976), and the tender-minded
picture of life-long pair-bonded monogamy and heavy male investment
(Lovejoy, 1981). Male scientists have been reluctant to recognize that, for
the most part, adult male hominids must have been rather peripheral
characters in human evolution, except as bearers of traits sexually-selected
by females for their amusement value or utility."
http://www.unm.edu/~psych/faculty/mate_choice.htm

When you look at the face reconstruction of Neanderthals they look like us,
their bones tell us that they walked like us, and we know they cared for
their dead, their sick and infirmed. They must have been self-conscious
they knew art, maybe wrote poetry in their own abstract kind of way. But
they are all dead; God it seems had a practice session of Armageddon. Left
us to waste away, languishing in a man made hell awaiting our turn,
Neanderthals must have been the chosen people the thirteenth tribe.
I am just kidding but one can extrapolate all sorts of scenarios.
mdc



***

Maybe what makes consciousness is calibration.

Is it possible the Neandertal was not self-conscious
in the sense of reflection. What is the evidence of
art in Neandertal discoveries? They buried their
dead with flowers? Perhaps after eating the flesh
from the bones, flowers were enough hide the stench
of remnant decay. When did the first consciousness
decide the "scent" of a flower is the essence, the spirit,
the "soul" of the deceased? If Neandertals were
cannibals in the sense of eating their dead, were they
aware and conscious or reflexive ... or both by means
of logic? Perhaps they practiced a primitive form of
reflection by means of projection. Evidence shows
they cared for their sick. If they ate their dead, perhaps
this consumption was their way of keeping the dead
with them, alive, always; while the bones were used
for protection. Keeping bones might have been the start
of keeping souvenirs. Idolatry. The dead "spoke"
when a bone was used as a flute.

Consciousness probably began with hunger,
and continued with the deceleration of time when
sated in anticipation (where to go in the future)
of the hunger cycle. Animals moved in migratory paths.
Did the Neandertals move in paths? or did they move
the paths? If they were like lions, they probably followed
the path of their prey. This might have included following
an unusual Neandertal-like animal, Homo sapien.

This strange animal not only fought back with their teeth
and brawn, but they threw things. If all the Neandertal
did was spit back at them, they'd lose. If they threw their
clubs, sticks and bones, they'd lose their only weapons
besides teeth. If the women were cute, Homo Sapiens
interbred and started a race that lived in the region
of their breeding and migration. It depended upon the
"dementedness" of the Homo Sapien. If the Homo
Sapien tribe had consciousness enough to maintain
order of the tribe, "oddities" were extinguished.

When they became conscious of this power to
extinguish, to exercise genocide, they began
to shape paths to suit themselves as opposed
to shaping themselves to suit the path.

It was perhaps the Homo Sapien who began
to shape paths. Perhaps they studied the
trajectory of their flying weapons. Then
shaped their weapons according to improved
targeting.

Once they understood this morphology, they
painted the walls of their caves, then duplicated
the caves through primitive forms of masonry.

When they understood duplication, they attained
the ultimate conscious consciousness. Not only
did they preserve the spirit of their dead, they
sensed the power to duplicate live animals, shelter,
and eventually, themselves.

This entire time, they paid attention to the
trees and sky.

Two mass races developed through strength,
innovation, and manipulation. One race evolved
as the earth-centered race. The other evolved
as the sun-worship race. From these two
ideals, spoken language expanded from simple
alerts to extensive notifications and songs.

Once the domestication of paths was relatively
mastered, they began work on perfecting
everlasting life - the duplication of themselves
beyond the next generation. Better yet, once
imaged, they imagined themselves transcending
the image, the reality of life and death, and
becoming nature or reaching the heavens.

At this point, true self-consciousness was
obtained in the form of the initial. They recorded
time through sounds, and retuned these images
according to shifts in the paths they once
controlled in order to regain control. They learned
the art of calibration in a self-centered universe
and called this, being connected, and began to
demand Humanity. But when realizing their
limitations due to their having to calibrate,
in essence, fit a square peg into a round hole,
they took it upon themselves to transcend
self-consciousness and become the essence
without dying.

Artificial intelligence is man
making God in his own image. The reflection
of the reflection. Artificial intelligence
is not self-conscious. Artificial intelligence
is self-calibrating meta-humanity in a paradoxical
birth from humanity, in the same manner
modern man is meta-antiquatedly evolved from
the first reshaping of paths.

When the two ment simultaneously,
man/machine will morph as one.

Self-selection, self-consciousness, self-calibration
will be the new trinity.


you my be right

I, robot will not only be initialized, I, robot will be
realized meta-essence in the form of energy
present man cannot "discover".

The shape of things to come will have no form
as though the flesh were stripped from the bone
and the bone transcended vapors. The power
of absolute nothing ends calibration. Man
no longer exists as a state as it is known today.
Memory ends itself, and the power of duplication
ends with the destruction of one. Energy remains
in the company of its very own rules. It is
a-calibration. Only its perfect rules define
awareness. Self-energy seeks only to seek and
to do so, what appears circular to man, it
creates self-selection in the form of positive and
negative from itself. It only becomes self when
energy splits. At that point, it is Neanderthal
energy spitting at that which is superior, and from
there, the positive and negative self-selects
in a series of calibrations according to the rules
of a-calibration. It's the only "game" self-energy
"plays" in order to survive nothing and everything,
simultaneously.


I agree with your well thought out and written assessment.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: (OT)Neandertal mtDNA/ mull that over
    ... self-consciousness as exclusively human, ... all-pervasive consciousness is the fabric of the universe and connects every ... from the bones, flowers were enough hide the stench ... Did the Neandertals move in paths? ...
    (rec.arts.poems)
  • Re: Universality as warrant for relative truth value
    ... it's a precondition of intentional action. ... consciousness, and since I do believe its existence, it would certainly ... Truth is not a quality of words, ... Ego is self-consciousness; my seeing the sunlight outside is ...
    (sci.philosophy.meta)
  • Re: Its like a switch has flipped . . .
    ... Just as there are some people who are utterly destroyed by being alone - so used are they to being around other people - there are some people for whom one night of sleep deprivation can reduce them to tears. ... our everyday consciousness is comprehensively dismantled. ... Rather than an individual with lowered consciousness, Sass regards the madman as someone with *too*much* consciousness. ... Self-consciousness adds a dimension to human actions that has the potential to disrupt our spontaneous relation to the world to its very core. ...
    (uk.people.support.depression)
  • Re: Article: On the Origins of Chemical Biodefense
    ... A SELF CONSISTENT test for "self-consciousness" is quite simple. ... though chimps can recognize themselves in a mirror they show little evidence ... of a _consciousness_ of self. ... Human rights are at ...
    (sci.bio.evolution)
  • Re: OT - Herding Hog in Texas
    ... what we call full consciousness was achieved. ... language development, whereas HSapiens used slender ... remnant,and also in modern genotypes. ... This suggests there was a melting pot effect of Neanderthals ...
    (rec.equestrian)
Loading