Re: OT: facts about border violence in Arizona


"Francis A. Miniter" <faminiter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:i1nk1d$b7g$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Stanley Moore wrote:
"Francis A. Miniter" <faminiter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Andrew Barss wrote:
Cece <ceceliaarmstrong@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
: On Jul 13, 8:59?pm, Andrew Barss <ba...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:> A quite good WAPO article on the distance between reality and the
:> claims made by many (including some here on ram) about the
horrendous tide
:> of violence sweeping across the border due to the illegal
immegrants:
:>
:>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/09/AR201...
:>
:> -- Andy Barss

: By the way-- Lots of places have laws just like the one Arizona
: recently passed. Chicago-land, Los Angeles, and other points all
over
: the country.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/ct-oped-0713-byrne-20100713,0,6263762.story
: So why is Arizona being singled out?


Well, try this for starters (quote from the Chicago Tribune editoril
you
posted the link to):
"So, obviously, the idea of state and local cops helping enforce
federal immigration laws is not in itself unconstitutional in the eyes
of the Obama administration. Then why is it suing Arizona? The
administration, to justify this obvious inconsistency, can point to a
difference in the Arizona law and the 287(g) program: The latter
applies to those already incarcerated. The Arizona law gives state and
local police the discretion to check immigration status before arrest
and incarceration.

That's not much of a difference upon which to base a constitutional
challenge."

From my reading (I'd love to hear the lawyers here comment) the
conclusion
to Byrne's argument (his last sentence) is a bit peculiar. Arizona's
law requires police officers to actively try to find illegal
immigrants, i.e. figure out how to identify an ilegal immigant and
arrest him or her for *that*. 287(g) seems to require checking of
documents for someone arrested for a distinct crime, e.g., DUI,
embezzlement, etc. For me, as a citizen, there's a world of difference
there!

-- Andy Barss

Byrne obviously is not trying to understand the constitutional basis of
the Obama challenge to the Arizona law. The Justice department has two
bases:

1. The Constitution says, and the Supreme Court has consistently held,
that the authority of the federal government in the area of immigration
is total, and that the doctrine of pre-emption bars the states from
interfering. (Isn't it marvelous that the Tea Partiers only love the
Constitution when its says what they want it to say?)

Rank hypocricy. The 50 odd sanctuary cities around the country (including
Houston) have certainly taken it upon themselves to interfere with the
federal control (which is not being exercised). They refuse to ciioerate
with federal authoruities. I wonder why the Justice Departtment hasno't
boithered to sue them.

While I have not read the document, I heard a news summary that the
Justice Department lawsuit contains in it a statement that the Arizona law
interferes with the priorities of ICE, in particular, by compelling action
against non-criminal undocumented immigrants. ICE does not have the
manpower or facilities for this, and they don't have much interest. So,
in fact the sanctuary cities are just fine with federal policy.

Neither Republicans or Democratic Attys Gen. have bithered to address
this usurpation of federal law.

Actually, not a usurpation. They are leaving enforcement of federal law
to the feds.

Who aren't doing it <G> by deliberate inaction.

Why bother to pass a specific ordinance? Seems if you are going to do
nothing you don't need an ordinance that prescribes that. It still is an
interference with federal law to pass such an ordinance. It creates a
patchwork. Holder is just doing this to energize Hispanic voters for the
election. Nothing wrong with that but it is hypocritical to denounce Arizona
and not the sanctuary cities.

Some of rthe snactuaries even forbid thier officials from reporting
dangeraous felons to ICE.

Now that you will have to show proof of. I can't accept it without
evidence.

This has resulted in illegal alines veing released from custody to kill
and maim again.

Prove it.

From the Wiki article on sanctuary cities there is a section about
controversies,

Controversial incidents
a.. In March 2008, Jamiel Shaw Jr., a high school athlete, was murdered in
Los Angeles by Pedro Espinoza, an illegal immigrant gang member from MS 13,
as he was walking home. It is believed that Espinoza mistook Shaw Jr. for a
rival gang member. Espinoza's legal status was not checked even though he
had been arrested for assault and was released a day before the murder
according to Police Chief Officer William Bratton.[14] As a result of Jamiel
Shaw Jr.'s death, a new ordinance is being proposed by family members that
would allow police in the area to arrest suspected illegal immigrant gang
members.[15] In May 2009, members of the Shaw family filed a lawsuit against
the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.[16]
a.. In July 2008, a criminal gang member from MS 13 and illegal immigrant
Edwin Ramos allegedly murdered Anthony Bologna and his two sons, Michael and
Matthew, in broad daylight during a traffic altercation in San Francisco.
Ramos was convicted of two felonies (including a gang-related assault of a
young man aboard a bus and the attempted robbery of a pregnant woman) at the
age of 17 years but was not reported to federal immigration authorities due
to San Francisco's sanctuary city policy.[17][18] The city rejected any
claims of liability and family members of the victims have filed a lawsuit
as a result.[19]
a.. In July 2008, a young woman was robbed and violently injured in San
Francisco's wealthy Pacific Heights neighborhood by an illegal immigrant
named Alexander Izaguirre. Before the incident, Izaguirre had pleaded guilty
to selling cocaine in the city's Tenderloin neighborhood and was involved in
previous purse-snatching crimes, but avoided jail due to his enrollment in a
program called Back on Track, which is run by District Attorney Kamala
Harris and provided training for jobs that Izaguirre could not legally
hold.[20]
a.. On July 31, 2008, 14-year-old Ivan Miranda was murdered and nearly
decapitated in a sword attack in San Francisco's Excelsior neighborhood.
Authorities arrested Rony Aguilera, known as "Guerrillero," in the attack
and believe Aguilera is an illegal immigrant from Honduras. Aguilera had
been arrested in 2007 in an assault case, but was never reported to federal
immigration officials due to San Francisco's sanctuary policy.[21]
a.. In October 2008, a drunken driver illegal immigrant, Salvador
Vivas-Diaz, crashed his car against the police car of Phoenix, Arizona
policeman Shane Figueroa which later resulted in Figueroa's death.
Vivas-Diaz had four arrest warrants, a suspended driver's license, had been
charged with forgery and failure to return to court but he was never
reported to federal immigration authorities due to Phoenix's former
sanctuary city policy.[22]
a.. On February 3, 2009 Francis Hernandez, an illegal immigrant, plowed
into a Baskin-Robbins ice cream shop in Denver, Colorado leaving three
people dead and two injured. Hernandez had been arrested numerous times
before but was never reported to federal immigration authorities due to
Denver's sanctuary city policy.[19]
[my opinions now] Those instances of crimninals not being rpoited us
appalling. I understand the wish not to harass otherwise law abinginng
illegal aliens, your maids or gardeners but to do nothing in the face of
overt criminality is just crazy.


In California this pre-emption of federal law

Pre-emption is a technical term and does not have that meaning.
Usurpation would be correct in the right context, such as the Arizona law.

Not being a lawyer, I bow to your expertise. Supposedly the Az law was
deaafted to mirror existing federal laaw with respect to legal residents who
are not citizens. I cannoit find the reference you requested but Arizona
authorities claim they were guided by that federal law.


has resulted in the deaths of a family from a notorious drunk driver who
should have been deported.

Citation please.

See above the wiki article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

Both Phoenix and Dewnver had problems with DUI deaths being attributed to
illegal aliens not reported to ICE and depoirted due to sanctuary
ordinances.


2. The Arizona law violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th
Amendment, and would cause a violation of the equal protection
obligation of the federal government under the Fifth Amendment.


I didn't think Eric Holder's suit mentions equal protection. The
sanctuary cities also treat some people different than others by giving
illegal aliens a free ride from having their cases addressed. What is
sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It is hypocritical to attack
Arizona without acting similarly to the sanctuary cities. Take care


Two news summaries I have heard and read says it does. Again, I have not
read the document.


Take care
--
Stanley L. Moore
"The belief in a supernatural
source of evil is not necessary;
men alone are quite capable
of every wickedness."
Joseph Conrad



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