Re: We still got it....

Pogonip wrote:
Elf wrote:
Don Harstad wrote:
"Pogonip" <nobody3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:49f754dc$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


I've even seen adopted children from these parents, taken in as family by middle-class, law-abiding people, yet the kids end up meeting their parents as they go through the same system. It's what convinced me that much of human behavior is genetic, and not always environment.

I agree. Very likely most.

Don H.

Which is why our current system of locking people up drives me nuts.

I don't know what the optimal solution is, but locking people (except for the most incorrigible or violent) in cages for extended periods with other people with the same problems at extreme expense isn't it.

elf


I have thought that there are some people who should be separated from society forever, regardless of what they've done so far, simply because they lack something that makes us "human" and they will act on that, killing and hurting others with absolutely no remorse. Others can be retrained - not rehabilitated because that means returned to their original state, and that's not really the goal. The problem is how that could be determined with 100% reliability. It can't be now or in the foreseeable future. Until there is a sure-fire way to determine which is which, we can't allow it to happen. We cannot lock up people or isolate people based on possible future behavior.

At the same time, our system as it is does not work, and in some cases may be even worse than doing nothing.

HI Joanne,

As you know, the percentage of murderers who are repeat offenders is minuscule. Murderers, for the most part, have eliminated what bothered them. Most of the truly sociopathic or psychopathic killers are multiple murderers before they get locked up and never get out again for that very reason.

Most "criminals" are people who get caught with illegal drugs. And I find no satisfactory explanation as to why these people are locked up. Of the rest, I have mostly encountered domestic situations that have become toxic, some career criminals (e.g., a family that lived by stealing from retail stores), and some who have just never been given the discipline needed to stay with something long enough to become a productive worker.

In Connecticut, at the women's prison in Niantic, there is a unique program, called the Marilyn Baker program, which takes only volunteers from the prisoners, has room for only 10% of the prison's convicted population, and operates like a marine basic training camp. Rooms (no cells) are cleaned spotless before leaving them in the morning, No bad language is allowed. A person can be thrown out of the program for swearing, bullying, or for failing to contribute a 100%. Manners are taught. Group and individual therapy are an integral part of the training. Anger management is a non-stop obligation, not just a sub-program to be taught and learned. Senior members of the program have to guide newcomers. Everyone has to contribute to social functions - e.g., all birthdays are celebrated. A woman who gets no "tickets" can graduate in as little as 26 weeks. Most take longer. Wally Lamb has twice given voice to some of the women who went through this program. Many women who have gone through this program have found the discipline of daily life in a working environment much easier to handle afterwards.

--
Francis A. Miniter

Oscuramente
libros, laminas, llaves
siguen mi suerte.

Jorge Luis Borges, La Cifra Haiku, 6
.

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