Re: OT: "Israel's Gift to America" - Ted Pike

As with the origins of the Iraq War, the reasons seem to be a "perfect
storm" - a series of events, not necessarily linked in time or place, that
leads to the development of something much larger.

The problem is that there is precious little evidence of the historical
Yeshua
or Joshua....<snip> Jim Jones made a bigger impression."

Indeed so.

I would take it as probable that there was a radical rabbi who got the
hackles
of the establishment up, and they did away with him. The myth-making
started
after he died..."

And by slowly taking on attributes of the other candidates (somewhat like
the primaries now), gaining a bit here and there, and then the major step of
being anointed the state religion. Greek gods and goddesses became
Christian saints - Hyacinth being the one that comes to mind. The elaborate
robes of Mythras became the robes of the early Christian church, replacing
the simple white robes. I have always been reminded of the sales types
involved with pyramid schemes, like the long departed "Dare to be Great". I
suspect Paul would have fit right in with such an organization. Religion
was on the minds of many then as money making schemes seem to be now. The
early church also use tactics later used by Lenin - small cells of
believers. Then, when the moment is right, attack fast against those
closest to you in belief. Christianity had to deal with Mythras as
Bolsheviks did with Menchviks...

Still, one has to wonder why one set of myths and not the others won the
day. Zeus and his family are rather appealing in comparison to the Hebrew
chap. Robin Fox's "Pagans and Christians" which deals with that issue is on
my "To Be Re-Read" pile at the moment.

Willow




"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:476c0711$1@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cheryl P. wrote:

Willow Arune wrote:

Ah dear, Howard...

Firstly, you assume that Jesus was an historical figure. There is
little if
anything to support that concept. I suggest you try "The Pagan
Christ" by
theologian Tom Harpur. An amalgam of various sun deities of the times
owing
almost all to other gods and goddesses who came before and all of
which were
"man made". What mythology is built upon what this mythical being said
about real or imaginary people is of limited evidence.


I don't think Tom Harpur has proven that Jesus *didn't* exist and I
rather suspect that he believes that a mythical Jesus is more real than
a historical one.

I suspect I don't understand Harpur's thinking fully, and I don't agree
with much of what I do understand. In spite of that, I'm pretty sure
you're missing even more when you imply that he claims that there's
nothing more to Jesus than an amalgam of various sun deities.

Cheryl


The problem is that there is precious little evidence of the historical
Yeshua
or Joshua. There is, outside of the gospels, only Josephus, and the
Vatican
text has an obvious gloss in it. (I understand that in Russia there is a
text
without the gloss but with the bare reference, but I am going back 30 odd
years
on that one.) The synoptic gospels have one origin, and that is Luke,
with
Matthew and Mark being derivative. Then there is the much later John.
And it
is pretty certain that none of the authors of NT texts actually saw or met
the
historical Joshua. He is not mentioned in a variety of historical texts
the way
many minor as well as major historical figures are. In fact, he seems to
have
been mostly peripheral to his own time. Jim Jones made a bigger
impression.

I would take it as probable that there was a radical rabbi who got the
hackles
of the establishment up, and they did away with him. The myth-making
started
after he died. As with Elvis, there were sightings. And as with Caesar
Augustus, there were retroactive recordings of celestial phenomena
accompanying
his birth. Miracles were the currency of the day. So there had to be
miracles.
Association with a deity was required; after all, Augustus claimed to be
descended from Venus, so if one was to be opposed to the Julians, equal or
greater divinity was required.

The imponderable in all this was why this particular rabbi? I don't have
an
answer for that. But cults had a way of springing up in those times.
Look at
the emergence of the Cult of Dionysus a few hundred years earlier. Or how
the
definitely human Buddha was deified. Then, there was Augustus. Perhaps,
this
ties in with my other post on the bicameral mind. It may be that the
Hellenic
period was marked, as our current time is, by a rebellion against the
progress
of the logical mind and the lessening of the perceived role of the divine
voice.
Jaynes suggests that Jesus was radical in that he proclaimed an
internalized
relationship to the divine. The need for an authoritative divinity,
however,
led his followers to externalize the relationship once again.

Suggested reading: Harold Bloom, Jesus and Yahweh: The Names Divine.


Francis A. Miniter


.

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