Re: Excuse Me...


"Lynn Allen" <lynn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4691dedd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 2007-07-08 21:17:24 -0700, clete purcell's next girlfriend
<queenjen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said:

Hey I'm a newbie here and for those of you who live here and obviously
all know each other really really well,this place is damned scary!!!

We were all new once. It's not so scary if you come in without
assumptions. I once felt intimidated by people who obviously knew each
other and met in RL, and had a much closer relationship than simply
posters to a common group. But when I posted about books or in OT threads,
I was welcomed. No more scary.

My experience in the last 2 weeks since I got here has been that there
is a limited amount of discussion on the mystery genre compared to
say, the mid east conflict? I was astounded at What Happened to
Willow, to me, one little quote and this person was blasted in 86 some
posts. it was a QUOTE people, it was vaguely interesting, right or
wrong. Maybe its time to get a room.

Trying come in as a late-comer, to prescribe what ANY pre-existing
internet community SHOULD do is a sure route to being ignored, kill-filed,
or ostracized. That's just the way the internet is...the eternal
opportunity to both opt-in to the existing group gestalt, or opt out if it
doesn't please you. There is NO opportunity, none, of changing what exists
to suit yourself (second person you, there).

We run a lot of OT posts. We always will. There are moderated groups that
permit NO off-topic posts at all. If all you want is book discussions with
no personal content, search them out. Or ignore everything that's
off-topic. The "Ignore thread" command in your newsreader will help with
this.

I cannot count the number of people who have come in, observed for a
couple of days, and then proceeded to lecture us that we don't post enough
on topic, that the OT stuff gets in the way (apparently under the
impression those few people who do post owe them entertainment of the type
they prefer), and that we are cliquey, biased against new people, hostile,
and against whatever they happen to be/believe. Whether that's liberal,
conservative, religious, Australian, Jewish, gay, transgendered (how would
WE know?) or blue with polka-dots, we must be against them because....just
because.

As a new person, I checked the link for the description of this site
and I didn't find any FAQs as referred to above. I'd appreciate
seeing them. Also, no one seems to post a profile

First off, rec.arts.mystery is not a "site." It's a Usenet News Group,
and while it is possible to access it through a web browser so it *looks*
like a website it is not. Usenet lives on a worldwide network of dedicated
servers, and most of us access it through a news reader application. This
means that as a non-moderated group, no one "owns" it, owns the content or
is responsible for what is said or what happens.

There is FAQ (I think that a link is published on the order of once a
month, a search in the archives will turn that up). It is a volunteer
effort and may not be complete. We are not responsible for any "link" to
the description of the newsgroup (not site) and not responsible for any
description. It was put together by someone else, and so might be
incorrect.

But there is no "site." All that RAM actually is is a collection of posts
by individuals. Any resemblance to a website, an organization or a club is
entirely in the mind of the beholder.

You can dismiss me as a stupid ignorant new person, but I WAS one of
the people that contacted Willow because what I saw was just NOT
CRICKET guys. This place is also incredibly US-centric, fyi. I
posted a coupla things about Australia and felt uncomfortable doing so
because they were OT.

That's really funny. US-centric. Maybe most of the people on the Internet
are from the US? On THIS group, however, we have Fran from Tasmania,
Mique and John Oliver from Australia, Jim Barker from Scotland, Rik
Shephard (he of the marvelous travelogues) from London, at least four from
Canada, and many more I can't remember at the moment from various areas.
In addition, some of us travel or live in other places, and report first
person on same.

I think that most of the active posters are in the US, yes. I think that
reflects the demographics of the Internet, mostly. We are entirely aware
that the US isn't alone in the world, and always wish our neighbors happy
Canada Day or Guy Fawkes day, or whatever. Post whatever you like about
Australia, but be aware you'll get fewer responses than on an
all-Australia newsgroup.

I'm sure I'm going to draw fire now for not doing something bleedingly
obvious to the rest of you (but not to me), so I'll apologise in
advance: I'm NEW, I've just discovered this forum and maybe my pov
should be interesting to anyone who lives here and is still keen on
attracting new members? I tried to get oriented on this site, but its
not easy or obvious, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure we want to attract "new members" as such. We love new points
of view, yes. Membership doesn't exist...only the willingness to enter the
group dynamic AS IT EXISTS. Don't post or comment in OT threads...that's
fine. Comment only in OT threads, that's fine too. Do NOT, however, enter
into debate if you're not willing to back up your opinions with
references, that doesn't fly. There are some ferocious researchers on this
group, if you just repeat opinions with no backup, you'll only look silly.

People (generally) talk to issues, and don't indulge in personal attacks.
Opinions HAVE been changed, in the past, but when that doesn't happen, the
debating parties will still talk to one another, civilly. I cannot tell
you how my own debating skills have improved since I started posting here.
And my first husband was a lawyer, so I was already pretty skilled!

What doesn't work is for people to come in and tell us we're doing it all
wrong and we ought to change it for the sake of new people.

I'm no shrinking violet, but this place is prickly if your new. Maybe
you should consider some of your advertised decades old members maybe
forming a welcoming posse every coupla weeks to encourage new
members. Or maybe you're quite happy exactly the way you are. I'm
gonna lurk and post for a few more weeks before I chuck it in. But
please hear me: You are alienating people who might be an asset to the
group.

Nope. The assumptions you make above, unfortunately, lead to many mistaken
conclusions on your part, and thus to hurt feelings.

There are no "members." There are only people who post, people who lurk
(read without posting), and people who don't read or care about
rec.arts.mystery. So there is no drive to acquire new "members." New
posters or lurkers will happen, as they do, as people come across or
search for references to mystery discussion groups. BTW, the normally
accepted ratio of lurkers to posters on Usenet is about 1 to 100. So if 50
different people post in any given month, we'll assume there are 5,000+
people out there reading but not posting. Any of those lurkers can become
a poster at any time. We don't recruit, beyond welcoming new people (as
you and Willow were welcomed) and sometimes urging the lurkers to come
forward, once they break cover. The group is not an "organization" in ANY
sense of the word...there are no goals, no mission, no management and no
oversight.

Those who post persistently, and with enjoyment, are those who BEST FIT
the group dynamic without trying to change it. There are a few persistent
thorns-in-the-side, who come back every few weeks with paranoid or bigoted
rants, most of us have kill-filed them. Some of us persist in reading and
responding to them in the hope that they might be redeemed. Some people
post infrequently, because their lives are very busy. Some have left
because any hint of confrontation disturbs them. Some people see any
disagreement as attack, and that doesn't play well with people who see
debate and opposing viewpoints as entertainment.

We are welcoming of new people who come forward with earnest intentions,
and even those who plop in with very "troll-like" behavior get a few
chances before they are ignored into obscurity. Ask Greggo. He caused
quite a few dustups when he first arrived...even some acrimony. But he
modified his debating style (he did NOT change his opinions) to fit in
better, and eventually even won some people over to his point of view (as
a conservative on this generally "liberalish" group, he had some different
opinions). Now he's greeted with real affection when he returns.

If you think RAM is "prickly" I invite you to explore some of the other
newsgroups out there. We are a bastion of gentle affirmation compared to
most of the vast "get them before they get you" attack dogs on Usenet. We
don't care that we're "alienating" new people...because new people who DO
fit in will be along shortly.

The formula for RAM has been working well for 10+ years...the percentage
of OT posts goes up and down with time but generally remains steady, new
people come in and we keep talking about mysteries on occasion. This
isn't so much snobbism as the general philosophy of Usenet. We're not
closing the door behind us to new posters, in any way, shape, or form.
New people join all the time. Some of them fit. Some of them don't. The
ones who don't move on. There are places where their personalities will
fit better and they'll be happier, unless they are people who are never
happy with anything.

RAM is a vital and living community, and one in which everyone who is here
and stays here agrees it's the right place for them to be. Quite an
accomplishment, as in almost any real-life community there are going to be
the dissatisfied, the disenfranchised, and the disgruntled.

The "I'll take my invaluable postings and go off and found a *better*
forum that goes exactly as I say it should and everyone will flock to"
pout is a funny one, one we've seen many times. The only thing we can say
is "fine, have a good time." Because RAM will most like be here in another
10 years, serving a community of people who like it as it is then.
--
--
Lymaree

Well said!

--
A R Pickett aka Woodstock

"Sometimes the facts threaten the truth"
Amos Oz, prize winning Israeli author

Read my book reviews at:
http://www.booksnbytes.com/reviews/_idx_ws_all_byauth.html

Now blogging!
http://www.journalscape.com/woodstock/

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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Excuse Me...
    ... I once felt intimidated by people who obviously knew each other and met in RL, and had a much closer relationship than simply posters to a common group. ... There are some ferocious researchers on this group, if you just repeat opinions with no backup, you'll only look silly. ... you should consider some of your advertised decades old members maybe ... But he modified his debating style to fit in better, and eventually even won some people over to his point of view. ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)
  • Re: Excuse Me...
    ... I once felt intimidated by people who obviously knew each other and met in RL, and had a much closer relationship than simply posters to a common group. ... It's a Usenet News Group, and while it is possible to access it through a web browser so it *looks* like a website it is not. ... I'm not sure we want to attract "new members" as such. ... If you think RAM is "prickly" I invite you to explore some of the other newsgroups out there. ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)
  • Re: Excuse Me...
    ... I think that most of the active posters are in the US, ... I'm not sure we want to attract "new members" as such. ... started posting here. ... If you think RAM is "prickly" I invite you to explore some of the other ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)
  • Re: RSGB Main News for 30 October 2005
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