Re: Aamir Khan: Knee Jerk ...er jerk!


Firstly, I have condemned lunatics like Saddam Hussein and Hafez Asad,
whereas you (Arjun Pundit, Shishir, yeskay) have not condemned the
actions of Bush or the U.S. government in years past.

No, I did not include the Kurds in the one million dead (Saddam was
supported and armed by the U.S. at that time) or the one million who
died in the Iran/Iraq war (again, Iraq was supported by the U.S. at
that time).

I am talking about Iraqi civilians who have died as a result of the
actions of the American government from 1991 up until the present time,
and including the effects of the U.N.-imposed sanctions on Iraq which
the U.S. oversaw.

Iraqbodycount.com is counting the number of dead civilians from
2002-2005, as far as I can see. Even conservative estimates say that
tens of thousands of civilians have died in Iraq as a result of
American bombing and invasion, post Sept 11th. There is no way that
only 25 000 Iraqis died as a result of war from 1991 to the present.
Iraqbodycount.com is thus only counting the number of dead Iraqis in
the second Gulf War, ie. the `war on terror.' Remember, Albright was
faced with the number of HALF A MILLION dead Iraq babies and after
serious thought (not) said that it was "worth it."

Even if `only' 20 000 Iraqi civilians died from 1991 to 2005, which is
not correct, I don't see how this would validate the moral reasons for
the U.S.' invasion of Iraq. Again, it is a sick and eurocentric style
of thinking which has even affected Indians, Middle Easterners,
Muslims, etc.-- 20 000 dead Muslims for the lives of 2 000 Americans is
justified and, what's more, even fair.

But let's get it straight-- Americans and western sanctions killed half
a million Iraqi babies (http://www.workers.org/ww/1996/fileout59.html)
even long before there was a 9/11. And after 9/11, tens of thousands
of more civilians have been killed. Americans probably killed more
people in Basra and Fallujah than all the single suicide bombers have
killed combined. According to Amnesty International, there are still
nearly 10 000 unexploded American cluster bombs in Iraq-- will those
future (and present) explosions be blamed on suicide bombers as well?

Get off your Indian-American pedestal and acknowledge what your
government has done. It is not shocking when we look at the track
record. There is no Hama by Hafez Asad or gassing of the Kurds by
Hussein which is not matched by the actions of the U.S. government.

Tens of thousands died in Guatamala because of the U.S.' support of a
military coup in that nation.

Tens of thousands died in Viet Nam because of America's involvement
there.

Tens of thousands died when the CIA helped to overthrow a
*democractically-elected* president in Iran (Mohamed Mosadegh) in 1953
and installed the Shah. 1979 was not the cause of anything, it was the
angry reaction. Today the same U.S. talks about the need for democracy
in Iran.

America caused bloodshed and thousands of deaths by arming
anti-government militias in Chile in the 1970's and supporting a
military takeover of the state.

America used chemical weapons such as "Agent Orange" against the
Vietnamese in the 1970's.

So yes, Iraq and Iran have (mutual) blood on their hands, but America
has just as much if not more. The difference is, the western media
reports one and not the other. Simple ignorance of the facts on the
part of the people is forgiveable, but willingly turning a convenient
blind eye to these facts is not. Hatred of Muslims or frustration at
their internal problems should not clout your judgement to the extreme
point of where you back the U.S.' criminal actions or refuse to
acknowledge that they ever occured.

I don't deny that Hama occured in 1982 (although where Shishir gets the
figure of 50 000, I don't know-- he seems to be fast and loose with the
facts when it comes to the numbers of Muslims killed by Muslims, yet
demands stringent proofs and evidences for the numbers of Muslims
killed by Americans). Why then do a large number of Americans and
their chamches deny that the burying of thousands of largely
surrendering Iraqi forces occured, that the U.S. overthrew
democratically elected governments in Iran, Chile, Guatamala, etc.,
that America killed thousands of civilians in Basra and Fallujah, that
America armed Iraq while it fought for 10 long years against Iran and
created untold misery on both sides, that America savagely bombed
retreating soldiers in the back along the `highway of death', etc.

Either these points are denied, or it's a matter of `so what?' So
what-- they're just Muslims, or Vietnamese, or Japanese. And those
`other' people, of course, do not suffer the same emotions or pain that
we do. This shows that most westerners have a far lower and more
inhumane view of Muslims when compared to the Muslims' view of the
other. The `kaafir', the `other', the `infidel', or what have you, is
still regarded as a human being by Islamic law, regardless of the
actions of sultans who were either sincere or nominal Muslims. There
is nothing in Islam which sanctions the wholesale killing of
non-Muslims for no reason, let alone their women and children. Yet in
the west, the wholesale killing of Muslims and the darker peoples of
the world is not just a mistake, a historical exception, or something
which is seen as needing change-- it is part of official government
policy and wholely endorsed by the public. People know about Viet Nam,
Korea, Iraq, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and think that it's `worth it' or,
like Arjun Pundit and Shishir, probably simply don't care.

Anyone who speaks out against these injustices is a terrorist, a
mullah, a fanatic. Yet these terms apply better to the non-apologetic
supporters of state terrorist mayhem and war all over the world.


Arjun Pandit wrote:
> rkusenet wrote:
> > "yeskay" <yeskay@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:dbll8j$1cs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Mukherjee wrote:
> > >
> > >>Now tell me, what evil is it that Hussein perpetrated which justifies
> > >>the deaths of 1 million Iraqis, and do you really think that the
> > >>majority of Iraqis look to Americans as their saviors?
> > > http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
> >
> > more than 55% of killings in Iraq is by Iraqis themselves. Something our mullah
> > Mukherjee will conveniently forget.
>
> Paki Abu Deedat (masquerading as Mukherjee) must have included the many
> many thousands of Kurds who were poison gassed by Saddam Hussein to
> arrive at his 1 million number.

.

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