Re: 'Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray' - questions

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:06:39 -0700, moviePig wrote:

On Jul 4, 12:01 am, "Jay G." <J...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:27:24 -0700, moviePig wrote:
On Jul 3, 9:09 am, "Jay G." <J...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

So, with all the various meanings of 'software' to choose from, you
elected to disqualify (as "unprecedented") the meaning that made
sense....

I didn't "elect" to "disqualify" anything, I initially read and interpreted
his sentence *as it was written*. As *written*, he used the word
"software" without qualifiers, which meant he was using it in the general
sense, which is *all* forms of software, especially of the types referred
to in the posts. *As written*, his sentence reads that one form of
software will make all forms of software "unnecessary," which doesn't make
*sense*. His sentence is incorrect, because, as written, it's nonsensical.

What makes *your* interpretation of the sentence the definitive one?

It's not, it's my opinion. I thought that was assumed. However, I did
provide definitions and links to examples that supported my position that
trotsky's use of the word "software" included digital downloads.

Should Trotsky answer to the vocabulary of the general population, or
instead of the sub-group he meant to address, however tiny you may
think it?

He should answer to the vocabulary of clarity and common use. I don't
believe he used the word in a way that was consistent with common use. His
*own* definition of the word software later in the thread of "media with
software," on he said was the commonly accepted definition, directly
contradicted with his usage in his original sentence

In the context of the cited headline "Blu-ray software sales surpass
HD-DVD", 'software' means 'prerecorded discs' ...interchangeably and
plug-compatibly.

Of *course* it means "prerecorded discs" in the specific context of those
two formats, since Blu-Ray and HD-DVD don't use any form of "software"
*except* for prerecorded discs. However, that context doesn't include
DVDs, even though DVDs are "prerecorded discs." In that sentence,
"software" is only referring to the Blu-Ray and HD DVD *forms* of software,
due to the specific context that the other words in the sentence create,
context that trotsky's usage lacked.

The context that trotsky's usage was created included BD, HD DVD, DVD and
digital downloads, and digital downloads count as "software," but aren't on
prerecorded discs, and he didn't utilize any qualifiers or context that
eliminated digital downloads as a form of software that was being referred
to by his usage. So while "prerecorded discs" acts as a good
*substitution* for the word "software" in trotsky's sentence, it's not an
accurate *definition* for the word "software," as used in his sentence.

The preceding word 'Blu-ray' is not a *defining*
qualifier as you claim.

Again, I supply the headline *without* the word "Blu-ray" in it:

Software sales surpass HD-DVD

Can you honestly tell me that the word "software" in that headline has the
same meaning as it did in the original headline?

(E.g., 'Blu-ray software' could still have referred to computer programs...)

I already wrote that, as trotsky was writing about *video* formats in a
movie newsgroup, I was acknowledging the context of that, and that his use
of the word "software" was of the standard and accepted definition used in
the video industry of "media with content," as trotsky himself claimed it
was, and as definitions and examples that he and I supplied from other
sources supported.

Rather,
'Blu-ray' and indeed that whole web site invoke a pre-existing context
wherein Trotsky's meaning of 'software' is a leading contender.

However, you're forgetting that the site you cite *wasn't* a pre-existing
context, since you provided the link far afterward, and the word "software"
wasn't used in *any* context in the thread until trotsky used it.

Now, you may assert that Trotsky had no right to assume that his
readers could readily access such a distant but demonstrably extant
context. (Btw, were you disappointed to learn of its existence?)

The only relevant context is what has already been stated in the thread,
and what trotsky himself added. For example, If I say "sandwiches are
unfit for human consumption," and when people disagree with me, cite an
outside article of some *specific* sandwiches that were indeed found unfit
for human consumption, I can't claim that my original sentence was correct
because it fit a context I didn't cite until much later. And even had that
context being previously stated, my sentence is *still* using the word
"sandwiches" too generally, as it seems I'm talking about *all* sandwiches,
and not a specific subsection.

Or, you may assure us that you, as a Style 101 professor, would grade his
sentence 'incorrect', as unfit for general consumption. Or, you may
appeal to some apocryphal (and arbitrary) Arbiter of Wrongness
(...although even he might be deterred by understanding what Trotsky
said).

I have no idea what this means. You seem to rely on two contradictory
positions:

1) Trotsky's sentence is completely incapable of being "judged" as either
correct or incorrect.

2) Trotsky's original sentence was correctly written.

At least one of those positions that you hold *has* to be wrong, since they
cancel each other out. If you feel that his sentence was correct as
originally written, i.e. using an accepted context and usage of the word,
then you're admitting that there is some fairly non-arbitrary system of
rules and usage that determines whether a sentence is correct or not.
Indeed, you have shown in the past, by writing examples of both
deliberately correct and incorrect sentences, that you believe there is
some such system in place. This would mean that you can't honestly believe
in the point #1 above that you repeatedly try to make.

On the other hand, if you really believe that trotsky's sentence is
incapable of being "either correct or incorrect," then why do you keep
trying to prove that it *was* correct? You cite usages in other writings
and such trying to prove something that you claim is unfavorable. If you
truly believed point #1, you wouldn't be trying so hard to prove point #2,
since point #2, under the rules of point #1, can't *exist*.

But, even after you've highlighted for Trotsky his potential
vaguenesses and recommended useful clarifications, and even if he
accepts them... if you then ask him whether he meant to write what he
originally wrote (i.e., your original question) and whether he still
finds it error-free, I assume the answer would be a big 10-4...

He's already proven that his sentence was incorrect by stating that his
intended definition of "software" was "content on media," and then failing
to explain how digital downloads fail to fit that definition.

-Jay
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray - questions
    ... elected to disqualify the meaning that made ... His sentence is incorrect, because, as written, it's nonsensical. ... However, that context doesn't include ... context that trotsky's usage lacked. ...
    (rec.arts.movies.current-films)
  • Re: Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray - questions
    ... That sentence, as written, is incorrect, regardless of what the "meaning" ... preferred context as the "authoritative" one. ... Trotsky, if I remember correctly, cited no real world usage, just some ...
    (rec.arts.movies.current-films)
  • Re: Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray - questions
    ... usually we label such a failed statement (i.e., ... context is too lacking or arcane) as 'incorrect', ... suggest he's effectively substituting his own preferred context as the ... and trotsky provided none either. ...
    (rec.arts.movies.current-films)
  • Re: Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray - questions
    ... trotsky's use of the word "software" included digital downloads. ... However, that context doesn't include ... context that trotsky's usage lacked. ... deliberately correct and incorrect sentences, ...
    (rec.arts.movies.current-films)
  • Re: Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray - questions
    ... context is too lacking or arcane) as 'incorrect', ... suggest he's effectively substituting his own preferred context as the ... Of course, Trotsky might argue that, within a BluRay-vs.-HdDvd thread, ... Since this was the first usage of ...
    (rec.arts.movies.current-films)