Re: Someone please inform Gary Lima...

For the Google Archives and subsequent Googlers...

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
Subject: Re: Someone please inform Gary Lima...
Message-ID: <UGd8i.24965$JZ3.5360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:48:52 GMT

"Jim Blansett" <jim_blansett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:bbkj535g1na2kidmoaf6v9nm6k0gcafffi@xxxxxxxxxx
On 27 May 2007 11:12:47 -0700, MelodiousThunk
<thunk.melodious@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 25, 6:37 pm, "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com> wrote:
"Zorb" <mzeer...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:jqie53tpelv710mhqil816ilhss56umb3f@xxxxxxxxxx

<snip>

I dont think so Jim,
This place is just a Newsgroup, a place where you can
play War of Words (a place where you can release
insanity), you never know Jim, in real life? Catherine
is probably just as she has always been (as you've known
her back when),

Which also either indicates that they were either stupid then and stupid now -
initially - or were lying then about who and what they were then and pretended
initially in these past eight years as well. Had EVERYONE not been lying then, all
this could (and ought to) have been avoided. But given that EVERYONE still
apparently wishes to inflict on others what they inflicted then, well...

You respond to the situation based upon your own choices, Zorb - as you did and
didn't back then. That helps 'splain what you are doing here now. That is, if it
really is you rather than someone else pretending to be you.

but here in RAMD? She's doing the RELEASE!
All this digital media stuff that we deal with all the time
is just one of the Seven Wonders of the Land, called?
Entertainment.

"Entertainment" or things that piss you off? At best, you have a masochistic
fascination with things you also claim to find entertaining, Zorb. At worst, you
continue to lie about it all. Whichever.

<::yawn::> And the weiner of the Lee Rudnicki "I'm Back
After Taking my Ball and Going Home non-award is..."

!

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com> <snip>
Message-ID: <fuM5i.3277$u56.2794@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<snip>

"Jim Blansett" <jim_blans...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:pg7e531riis23rt2u8qdlf7p9ol55qqok7@xxxxxxxxxx

On Fri, 25 May 2007 10:12:47 -0700, Charlie Groh wrote:

On 25 May 2007 06:53:01 -0500, Jim Blansett
<jim_blans...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 00:34:37 GMT, "Catherine"
<Catherine@yahoo!!!.com> wrote:

<snipped>
So keep on with the many unfair standards WAY
unfairly applied - and lies. The fact you want to say
something about that now JB? Puts a whole 'nother
spin on Dumont Street. You were how old then?

All particpants were capable of legally giving informed
consent - in other words, adults.

Was Angela also of-age? Speaking "of-age", what about all the alcohol? Also, and
it's rather amazing after all this time - but it speaks even more to the truth of
predatory exploitation, for those who care more about the preyed upon than those who
want to keep on preying - some of the other realities of that tour. Am glad <not
really> of all the continuing interest and posts, and what they indicate to others
who aren't here on RAMD attempting to style themselves as blando leaders and
apologists.

Because with more pertinent information, then as now, some people become more and
more apparent - as do Ron Housley's open questions and unfortunately one-sided
discussions.

And you, Bill. You mentioned Gail Royer's horrible sins - in an attempt to appear
reasonable, and to pretend that's part of the reason you went back to the VK after
yer tour north - and in advance of both Tim Moxley and Chris Nalls, amongst other
people. You also alleged once that you were part of being alienated out of
instructing in 1981. Things you actually believe which actually apply to "the
activity" and the people in them, or just manipulative tools for this target? Am not
expecting any sort of reply which will only require a suspension of belief with
regard to the inconsistencies of the person holding forth...

Charlie at the lifeguard station at Huntington Beach
when all us underagers got popped by the beach patrol?
Some of the history of the

...yah, and good ol' Charlie steered those mean beach patrolers
away...don't recall chatty Cathy being there, tho...maybe she
was with Noni, so I didn't notice.

You weren't there (not this particular time anyhoo - gee, there
were more such instances? Do tell, JB...). Charlie was the
only one over 21 - and he was off at the lifeguard station
with someone... That was why we were all calling "oh,
Charlie..."

You're painting informal member get-togethers as if they
were official functions.

That excuse doesn't fly any more these days. But it does interest me to know that
you have different sets of moral guidelines in one situation over another, and appear
to believe that younger people who don't realize they are being lied to and
manipulated by those older than they are have more of a responsibility to understand
the situation than said older people - particularly given that said older people, in
the history of the destruction of southern California drum corps (at least), were
working together in ways that said younger people knew nothing about.

You are lying.

Yer deep and sincere concerns about lying and those who do it are noted and given the
consideration such deserves.

In fact, Charlie's facility of immediately sayin', "yes, I'm
Rocco Oliverio and we Kingsmen just got out of
rehearsal" takes on a whole new significance - regarding
ease of lying.

There's a difference between alcohol and sex.
I realize your experiences may be different,
but the two can be mutually exclusive.

Not addressing the details, throwing something out like this (whether it does or
doesn't apply to the situation(s)), and then an attack (again, based upon nothing).
I realize I'm not going to get any honest answers from you now, just as I and others
didn't then. Thanks <not really> for detailing such for other reasonable people.

...what's the mantra, "...unfair standards..." and all that rot?

Yer deep and sincere concerns for unfair standards, unfairly applied...

Jimenez'?

<snipped, again>

It's all re-appended below. Honest people with nothing to hide or coverup can read
it. As for me, I simply expect this sort of abuse. Such loses whatever power it
once had, once the manipulative triggers are gone.

Keep digging...

You're a hypocrite - be a big girl and admit it. It
might be your first step to recovery (assuming
it ain't too late).

JB's deep and sincere concerns regarding hypocrisy are also noted...

Not at all, JB. You and I already had this discussion
a long time ago, and I told you that you were mistaken
then in what you had perceived.

I notice you don't bring up Gary Lee...

Yeah, that's a topic which puts the lie to a lot of y'all, then and now. Many
discussions were being brought up over these past eight years - the reasons why y'all
asked them being illuminated by yer now-publicly stated attitudes. You stood by
then, and you stood by more recently - as you stood by for and even helped Berish.

Which puts a whole 'nother spin on just why JB and Charlie were right there in the
whole initial Berish and Schaafsma incident. And the entire blando community was
more than happy to participate - until I didn't go away as was intended.

...fat chance, JB...but from now on, I'm treating this
stuff as HUMOR...while I count how many times she
mentions *my* name along with yours

You view that as an improvement? Keep digging, Charlie...

(notice how we're a dynamic duo again? Heh...).

cg

I think the "again" is a mischaracterization. "still" is more like it, and would be
expected.

That also has 'splained sumthin' we've been wondering about.
I'd say thanks, but, well, you know...

And EVERYONE's deep and sincere concerns about
pedophiles, predators, and those who psychopathically
lie, manipulate and inflict such on people, no matter
the costs, are noted and given the consideration such
deserves.

I just knew it was a matter of time. Quite honestly, I'm
surprised it took her this long, since I cut her out of my
daily life a long damned time ago. And I feel much
better for it.

Interesting resonance between what Berish and Schaafsma
were doing and what you once claimed disagreeing with.
But I'm sure you and Charlie have had plenty of practice
over three, and probably four decades, of doing the same.
I don't believe I'm special at all in this arena - blandos like
you would have had to have lotsa practice. Unfortunately,
you also had guidance and grooming. Even more
unfortunately, you liked and respected predators and lying
manipulators - then and now..

I don't, and never did.

Yet by your own claim, every single instructor you ever had
was a lying manipulator.

That's a lie, Bill. I refused to allow those destroying drum corps then to redefine
the activity in what one can now see as the blando evolution, starting with Downey's
"they 'appreciate' us" to 'splain the dead response to the BD's performances. I
still refuse to allow people like you, JB, Charlie and others who continue to lie
about EVERYTHING to so redefine my experiences and the experiences of a whole lotta
other people.

That's why I continue to be a target. It's also why drum corps people were targets
in the first place - the targeting of which you have been a part of since 1973 where
I was concerned. The fact you were well able to spin it one way just as you are
spinning that another way now reveals you. That puts you in the Garry Parker Apology
crowd.

As for your deep and sincere concerns regarding kids who are being lied to by ALL
their instructors, that's unfortunately not an uncommon situation - these days. Your
attempt to victimize further those who have been victimized, no matter the costs, is
noted. Accusations of paranoia are easy - particularly when claimed by predators in
an activity who have been "saving" it for 35+ years.

So you did, and always did. And now you're doing
your damndest to out-lie and out-manipulate the
few people who will still engage you in conversation.

You're the one who came into this "conversation". And just as you phish for "all
[my] instructors", you certainly don't speak for all the people in my life. You
don't even speak for yourself, from the evidence of the over 1000 e-mails in our
largely 2001-2002 "discussions". 'Twas an interesting bit o' tag-teaming back then,
from a small <pun intended> clique. Any analysis today of the blando "evolution"
which doesn't address the facts of all these "techniques" simply denotes people who
are either lying to the mark, er... target, er... "product" to be recruited, or
mediocrities who don't believe in anything better who don't care about themselves or
anyone else.

So when I see the same thing going on, by many of the same people, with more of the
same people standing by... Y'all are just pissed off at being found out.
Awwwwwwwwww...

That's why I was targeted long ago.

You *were* in fact "targeted long ago," and we've talked
about that many times. It was because you were ahead
of the Orange County cultural curve.

Oh, that's not the reason, Bill. I 'spose you attempt to flatter me with this sort
of thing. Too bad for you I didn't care then about such things, and I don't care
now.

You, when you couldn't yet drive, had business cards
printed that read "Sex Goddess." So evidence of your lyin'
manipulations goes back to at least 1973.

You are the one lying and manipulating. You are wrong on your dates and misleading
on yer reportage, and you are also lying about the intentions - in ways that put the
lie to a lot of other words of yours. But yer deep and sincere concerns regarding
liars and manipulators...

-- Catherine?

(I love the Freudian slip!)

Damn, I missed that! Entirely apropos, don'tcha think?

Great catch, Mr. Thunk.



<snip the triple-post>

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
Message-ID: <8yM5i.3279$u56.1448@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

"Zorb" <mzeerbar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jqie53tpelv710mhqil816ilhss56umb3f@xxxxxxxxxx

<snip>

I dont think so Jim,
This place is just a Newsgroup, a place where you can play War of
Words (a place where you can release insanity), you never know Jim,
in real life? Catherine is probably just as she has always been
(as you've known her back when), but here in RAMD? She's doing
the RELEASE!. All this digital media stuff that we deal with all
the time is just one of the Seven Wonders of the Land, called?
Entertainment.

<::yawn::> And the weiner of the Lee Rudnicki "I'm Back After Taking my Ball and
Going Home
non-award is..."

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
Message-ID: <fuM5i.3277$u56.2794@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

"Jim Blansett" <jim_blansett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:pg7e531riis23rt2u8qdlf7p9ol55qqok7@xxxxxxxxxx

On Fri, 25 May 2007 10:12:47 -0700, Charlie Groh wrote:

On 25 May 2007 06:53:01 -0500, Jim Blansett
<jim_blansett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 00:34:37 GMT, "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
wrote:

<snipped>

So keep on with the many unfair standards WAY unfairly applied -
and lies. The fact you want to say something about that now JB?
Puts a whole 'nother spin on Dumont Street. You were how old then?

All particpants were capable of legally giving informed consent - in
other words, adults.

Charlie at the lifeguard station at Huntington Beach
when all us underagers got popped by the beach patrol?
Some of the history of the

...yah, and good ol' Charlie steered those mean beach patrolers
away...don't recall chatty Cathy being there, tho...maybe she
was with Noni, so I didn't notice.

You weren't there (not this particular time anyhoo - gee, there were more such
instances? Do tell, JB...). Charlie was the only one over 21 - and he was off at
the lifeguard station with someone... That was why we were all calling "oh,
Charlie..."

In fact, Charlie's facility of immediately sayin', "yes, I'm Rocco Oliverio and we
Kingsmen just got out of rehearsal" takes on a whole new significance - regarding
ease of lying.

There's a difference between alcohol and sex. I realize your
experiences may be different, but the two can be mutually exclusive.

...what's the mantra, "...unfair standards..." and all that rot?

Jimenez'?

<snipped, again>
Keep digging...


You're a hypocrite - be a big girl and admit it. It might be your
first step to recovery (assuming it ain't too late).

Not at all, JB. You and I already had this discussion a long time ago, and I told
you that you were mistaken then in what you had perceived.

I notice you don't bring up Gary Lee...

...fat chance, JB...but from now on, I'm treating this
stuff as HUMOR...while I count how many times she
mentions *my* name along with yours

You view that as an improvement? Keep digging, Charlie...

(notice how we're a dynamic duo again? Heh...).

cg

That also has 'splained sumthin' we've been wondering about. I'd say thanks, but,
well, you know...

And EVERYONE's deep and sincere concerns about pedophiles, predators, and those who
psychopathically lie, manipulate and inflict such on people, no matter the costs, are
noted and given the consideration such deserves.

I just knew it was a matter of time. Quite honestly, I'm
surprised it took her this long, since I cut her out of my
daily life a long damned time ago. And I feel much
better for it.

Interesting resonance between what Berish and Schaafsma were doing and what you once
claimed disagreeing with. But I'm sure you and Charlie have had plenty of practice
over three, and probably four decades, of doing the same. I don't believe I'm
special at all in this arena - blandos like you would have had to have lotsa
practice. Unfortunately, you also had guidance and grooming. Even more
unfortunately, you liked and respected predators and lying manipulators - then and
now..

I don't, and never did. That's why I was targeted long ago.

-- Catherine?

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
Message-ID: <xaq5i.30021$Um6.12433@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

"MelodiousThunk" <thunk.melodious@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180039298.524204.255030@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On May 24, 1:34 pm, Jim Blansett <jim_blans...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 May 2007 12:47:34 -0700, Zorb <mzeer...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



On Thu, 24 May 2007 12:51:48 GMT, "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
wrote:

<Charlie Groh> wrote in
messagenews:um1a53h24lgfv19426onomjvtrb138ncot@xxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 23 May 2007 21:00:50 -0500, "Catherine"
<Catherine@yahoo!!!.com> wrote:

<Charlie Groh> wrote in
messagenews:afme435klhqqksb3pruclg9uc2s2mfb2e0@xxxxxxxxxx
On 13 May 2007 09:32:43 -0700, Taxm...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

<SNIP A WHOLE BUNCH... & the rest>

I admit I have been confused and sometimes disgusted by your ramblings
and stated as much in pretty harsh terms. However, don't include me
in your blando and lying categories. You don't know me, and I am
neither (although I did play for the kingsmen alumni corps
temporarily, but MOST of them are trying to do 'old time drum corps'
the best they can and I never ONCE heard anyone talking about lusting
over little kids)

Z


That just reminded me, Zorb. If my memory serves me correctly, there
was a time when Catherine, herself, was lusting after a 14 year-old
boy. She was, of course, older than that, by years. Does that make
her a pedophile?

<sigh>

I wuz hopin' it wouldn't come to this discussion...

Gee, Bill -- Holding something back? Of course, you remember better certain underage
girls staying at your house, and what happened and what didn't. I'm more than
willing and able to discuss such subjects - particularly under fair standards, fairly
applied.

And you can go on record for encouraging people to do to kids what someday, you
expose your own children to - if you encourage all this. "I was a friend of your
father's..." And for what? Hope it's worth selling people out. You never know what
such abuses will come back on you and yours <usual nonviolence disclaimers>, whether
or not what impacts you are people you know, or simply people in some other network.

For the record, when the individual involved was 14, that was the inevitable
statement - from me - wow, he's 14. Just as when people would ask about a certain
fellow FH, "who's your friend?", I would say "she's 14".

Unfortunately, she didn't get similar protection in Vince Lamb's 1978 AK.

And that's right, JB - you weren't around the VK in 1974. You had left. Interesting
how Charlie's "I was in Viet Nam" excuses him from all knowledge of what was
happening and what happened in 1970 VK (and you were allegedly there then), but you
will claim knowledge of things when you weren't around. It's lame, but the best
you've got I guess.

Feel free to discuss my alleged sins, while not to saying anything about Berish and
all the rest of instructor-student "relationships".

I fully acknowledge being "groomed" to accept things - because I was being lied to
about what was meant and intended. I have quite a lot of e-mails back and forth,
primarily from Ron Housley but also from others, which have taken on quite a
different intention as time continues to tell - as well as demonstrating lies over
the past eight years about just why some people were writing me. Including you,
given your change of expressed attitude once I finally busted Berish.

It's most interesting to revisit those e-mails now, even before I wised up about
blandos exploiting friendship, hopes, dreams, drum corps... Charlie's doing the
latter in these very posts, in a most illustrative way.

To decent people who care about protecting people from predators and lying
manipulators, that is.

If you want to claim that I was the only one in the 1970s VK who ever made sexually
inappropriate comments, go right ahead. Gee, I wonder where I might have got that
from, and whom the adults/instructors were that fed all that "culture"...

Just helps continue to proves my points today. And today, no one can reasonably
claim that EVERYTHING I complain of is solely due to my allegedly being scarred by my
past, by things which happened long ago and having nothing whatsoever to do with what
was being done and not being done around me. The same people are demonstrably worse
now - and the time to have forsworn knowledge and culpability due to ignorance or
immaturity <$.02 to Downey> is loooong gone.

So keep on with the many unfair standards WAY unfairly applied - and lies. The fact
you want to say something about that now JB? Puts a whole 'nother spin on Dumont
Street. You were how old then? Charlie at the lifeguard station at Huntington Beach
when all us underagers got popped by the beach patrol? Some of the history of the
Jimenez'?

"Fun" is only so when it spoils nothing better - Santayana In the case of
predators and exploiters who have spent decades scamming others, well, it's been a
education. But it wasn't drum corps then, and it's certainly not drum corps now.

Then there's all that blando "recruiting" I've witnessed (after I was out), and heard
about these days. I post about it. Y'all attack me for doing so, and putting the
lie in the here and now. I feel sorry for all of you. All this was inevitable -
unless you could break me, and you have not and will not. Ever. I've made sure of
that. Y'all, Downey, Gregg, Berish, all of you - losers, given what you need and
prefer to keep your predatory scams going.

Keep digging...

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
Subject: Re: Good Drum Corps Memories
Message-ID: <VGd8i.24966$JZ3.10988@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:48:53 GMT

"MelodiousThunk" <thunk.melodious@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180288558.934756.279440@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On May 25, 6:54 pm, "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com> wrote:
"MelodiousThunk" <thunk.melodi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180062009.626990.306980@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On May 24, 6:08 pm, "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com> wrote:
"MelodiousThunk" <thunk.melodi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180039559.546347.42550@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On May 24, 6:44 am, Shawn Hines <shawnhi...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 5/24/07 09:07, in article
1180012073.304632.253...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jazzycat1"
<jeffreyno...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

1977 & 1978 were at Mile High Stadium. (Also
American Legion Nats in 1977.)

1979 was Birmingham.

Wrong bitch. 1979 Drums along the rockies was in
Denver, in Mile High stadium, I went, I enjoyed it,
I lost my virginity, thank God not to you.

You speak as though it might have been a possibility you
had hoped for. Interesting how you reveal yer view of human
nature and what yer experience-that-turned-you-into-"this"
created. Potential sucksess trackers, take note.

Just amazing how you twist and turn fun topics into
platforms for your idiotic agenda you psychopathic
beeyotch. Please just die now, OK?

Drums Along the Rockies was not specified. You
left that out. Amazing how you twist and turn topics
(different shows, not "wrong" nor "psychopathic").
Interesting thought process, particularly given those
people whom you claim to associate with. Whomever
you are.

Just remember Levi Harton. You seem to be following
in his footsteps rather nicely -- well, not nicely...

Given all those deep and sincere concerns regarding
young people being taken advantage of, lied to, corrupted,
groomed into abusive predators - and psychopathy,
your posts are quite welcome.

Ah ... 1979 DATR ... Great show. Especially for
Spirit of Atlanta ;-)

I still think Denver was/is one of the best venues for
a drum corps show.

Boulder is pretty outstanding, too.

Shawn

There were two DATR tours; the penultimate show on the
1st was the Mile High "Championship." Two weeks later,
the penultimate show of the 2nd tour was Boise, ID, a far
better show for SCV, Blue Devils won it, Spirit was
elsewhere, and VK beat someone for a change. ;-)

1979. <sigh>

More like and respect betwixt friends, and "friends"... I think
there's more than enough grounds to disbelieve anything and
EVERYTHING you ever wrote me regarding 1973 and 1974.
I think I'll totally go back to believing, as I do about JB and
Charlie, and as Vince Lamb and others have alleged, that the
truth is so much worse than even I think now.

Feel free to disbelieve everything I've ever told you. You've lost all
ability to reason anyway. In fact, why don't you listen to Manny
for a change? He's conquered life, right?

Toodles. Fer now...

-- Catherine

P.S. -- My drum corps memories are better than ever, now
that they are no longer clouded by what those DCI/blando
types did to the activity. Since y'all care so very, very much
and ya wanna "help"...

You inflicted enough hurt on my wife, that I'm anxious ta share it
wid' ya.

'Cept ya got no class... midwest skank, ya became. Catherine,
you're a blot on yer own memory.

<snip>

Oh, so now there's a memory? At least for this post.

As you well know, I remember you as an intelligent, interesting girl
from 1974. I knew you again when you marched in 1977.

You and I rarely interacted in 1977. But that's right, you and I have had this
discussion about those years, and this is now the spin after the truth about Berish
is out and a lot of things and people can't be lied about any longer. Or I won't
allow them to be lied about. Whichever.

That'll change in Blandorama-land, where nothing
means anything at all except what the blando-
powers-that-be declare at the present moment, for
their supporters without any integrity whatsoever -
or even the character to try for it.

You will never erase the eight years of all this, Bill.

Then, in 2000, you contacted me & started flooding me
with emails and pumping me for information. Like other
of your former friends and acquaintances, I saw in you
someone whom I used to like, who seemed to be
hurting, and I responded with kindness and sensitivity,
and allowed you to, in retrospect, pump me for
information for the next seven years. So I remember
you as somone cool for a couple years, and then
in a semi-functional dipolar state for the last eight or so.

Oh, I don't think any reasonable person is going to get that impression from your
e-mails - especially this latest mischaracterization of them. You and EVERYONE else
can continue this sort of tripe that may be effective with pedophiles, those who
cover for them, and any of the desperate band nerds that are still persuaded by some
ambitious/narcissistic/predatory mediocrity pretending to be a teacher, AS WE ONCE
WERE, and all of them who are being promised a whole lotta lies in order to keep the
corrupt blando corporate network <redundancies noted> limping along. But there will
continue to be the Eric Olivenbaums, and many of the other costs. There will also
continue to be genuine people and programs who exist despite y'all. And
increasingly, there will be those who know enough and care enough to combat people
who even will characterize themselves and what they do as "evil" as though EVERYTHING
were all a game (or "business"), rather than anything with meaning a decent and
informed person would belong to.

As for yer personal attacks on me, Bill, <::yawn::>

I have been consistent throughout in my views
of drum and bugle corps, and what I believed.

You mean, like you believed in Downey, Housley, Isbell, etc.?
You haven't been inconsistent at all, huh? Or howzabout Kilts,
"Wegends," Sky, FFerns... again, what you believe changes
with hormonal (im)balance.

Bill, those aren't the reasons. Your own e-mails put the lie to you now. And the
attempt at a misogynistic insult my way simply reveals you. As for what you call an
inconsistency in my beliefs about certain people, I fully admit my ineptness in
seeing predators and liars for what they are, particularly when said persons are in
full lying mode and when other people who have even lied about convicted child
molesters as well as blandos exploiting drum & bugle corps, music, and people's hopes
and dreams are enabling them.

I've learned better. What concerns me greatly is how I will still get e-mails from
some people who tell me how much they agree with all I write (whether they like my
"style" or not). What's also of concern is when I hear reports of other people, some
of whom attack me in some fora or at different times, who pretend they agree with me
or are even "my friend" (like you have claimed very recently) when I have stated
quite clearly that they are not.

Now, you may claim your views of reality are consistent and explanatory, just as I
claim them to be. Time will tell whether or not the continued response from
"reasonable blandos" <oxymoronic> is more trolling and manipulations via the internet
(and unfortunately in RL), or something more reasonable. I have low expectations for
the immediate future. But long-term is something else again.

The difference was in believing the lies you and the
rest of Berish's friends who stood by him - out
of like and respect, I guess - for 30+ years.

Harvey appears to be back out; he was incarcerated a
couple of months back. All that info. is on the Megan's
Law site. I had neither like nor respect for the man,
and of course you know that in detail...

I don't "know" anything of the kind.

but I understand that you don't really care whom you're
addressing. You're simply manipulating history for
your own amusement.

That's a revealing statement - of you, not of me.

Harvey's apparent friends, the Shaafsmas and Norris's,
don't seem to be posting much, but I expect to hear
from them anytime his name appears on RAMD.

I feel sorry for you that you missed out.

See, I haven't missed anything. Life look good from
here. Can you say the same?

Given the reality, I'm doing FAR better than anyone of EVERYONE expected or intended.
Thankew fer yer deep and sincere interests in my continuing development along my
values and according to my abilities and talents. </sarcasm>

As fer you and Nancy, as you are
continuing to defraud others in the same
ways that you once criticized - when it
suited you, I know what'chy'all are.

It's pretty well established that Bill Turner posts under
the nym Melodious Thunk. What other fraud could
I possibly commit?

Yer deep and sincere concerns about consistency and all...

(Use all the whitespace ya need...)

Nor is it me who's hurt yer wife.

See, no class.

Yer taste for these gratuitous insults which have nothing to do with the argument
reveal you, Bill. They also reveal yer views on human nature and motivations - of
those who surround you. They also reveal you as clueless about me.

I'll let your vast audience refresh their own memories,
via Google, for your attacks on my wife's father, my wife
when she was nine, and my kids.

Ah, the list of revisionistic lies is growing. Whatever. <::yawn::>

You should really give back the jacket, as she asked.

Here's the deal, Bill. If you and JB would like to give me back the horns I sent
each of you, and can get a third party to come meet me somewhere in person, I am more
than happy to give the thing back - if only to shut you up on a matter on which it
would be in my power to do something about. I can easily photocopy the white
satin-era VK insignia and have my own jacket made, if I care to do so, and y'all can
getchur own horns, and this nonsense about returning things which were alleged at the
time to be gifts rather than - in your view - a purchase for all time of my views
and/or affections, or a manipulative tool to delay my appreciating yer actual
intentions. Whichever.

Or not. Just post the date and time. I'm sure Siglow or some other blando who
travels the country could do so, in-between trolling. That is, if you trust them
with either the horns or the jacket. BTW, the exchange would be made at a public
place, with witnesses.

Or you can quit being stupid and attempting to be gratuitously hurtful, no matter the
costs. Whichever.

(Of course, that would require familiarity with ethics. You could
probably sue Berkeley for malpractice, yanno.)

Yer deep and sincere concerns regarding ethics and people's perception of you as a
judge thereof...

But with regard to a concern for ethics... I was just going to let these posts pass.
Then I had some discussions with some other people. And in addition to the
additional information gathered, there is my long-term plan here - and something
which came outta all that. Bill's continued raising of the subject of Nancy's
father, a flame burp which also went nowhere, and the fact of his working along with
my father, allegedly talking about their daughters in drum corps, should have a whole
'nother significance.

If you know about these things - the reality, Bill - then shame on you. If you are
being used on these subjects, as all of us who march in groups where some (not all)
of the people surrounding us lied to us, then shame on them and shame on you for
being a willing part of enabling it.

Not that I will be surprised. I was told decades ago about certain sadistic glee
being taken by some people. I confronted the person and got the most abject apology
about it, and sworn resolutions to do better. I've seen what such statements from
some people are worth. I don't expect any better from you - after all, you've been
groomed by (some) people who are very adept at such things, and this is now all
you've got.

Again, I really do feel sorry for you, and what you willingly gave up.

No one who has reviewed RAMD could take that
allegation seriously as to what you stand by for, what
you have been a part of, and all the rest of the unfair
standards, unfairly applied. All the other bullies
posting lies will only illuminate other mediocrities
who sell what could be out because they've given up.

You are, in fact, the bully posting the highest percentage
of lies. As far as what could be, you don't have a clue.

Oh, yes I do.

You criticize every effort to start websites and discussion
groups, when you naturally have done the same,
repeatedly, and have accomplished exactly nothing,
other than weakining your own arguments.

Do I get to accuse you of a Freudian slip here for making a typo on "weakining"?

I've at least accomplished more honest "discussion" from you. It interests me to
observe you thinking that years of bull*** from you, along with years - and in some
cases, decades - of bull*** from a very few others appears to have been in some way
a form of superiority. Whatever.

Let me disabuse you of the notion that your evaluation of my or other people's resume
credits means anything to me on its face. Not that I expect such to stop you as you
continue transforming publicly into using the same sort of insults Parker, Norris et
al. were using years ago while you pretended to be better. I'm used to that sort of
phony.

I "gave up" because corps wasn't interesting to me after about
1975. I still hung around for a few years trying to "give back"
a little, but all your crusades aside, I (and millions of other
corps fans) didn't care for corps in the DCI era as much as
we did before. So, we left.

Keep modeling inconsistencies, Bill.

All the RAMD flame wars possible, in truth, are better
than any frauds perpetrated, no matter how much
money is thrown or ill-gotten gains exploited. Keep digging...

-- Catherine

Hey, I agree! Flame wars are better than frauds.

Yes, I've noted how there appears to be an interest by EVERYONE in making what has
happened over the past eight years where I am concerned "nothing but flame wars". It
ain't gonna happen. Just as making decades of genuine drum and bugle corps into
something worthless to be discarded by "newer and better" didn't, doesn't and will
never work.

You, EVERYONE and trolls can continue playing with people's perceptions all you like,
Bill. Such only reveals you, EVERYONE and said trolls. Then you can attempt to
persuade anyone about genuine achievement and the lack thereof, on and off the
internet.

Truth is, I don't (and didn't) have to do anything at all for you and EVERYONE to be
interested in me and what I might do. That's really what pisses you off, and
probably pissed you off then. Such lack of self-confidence on the part of any person
alleging they know anything about genuine drum corps is amazing to me.

And your distaste for "ill-gotten gains exploited"
means you'll be reimbursing everyone who's
been helping "poor Catherine" for all these years
you've remained in dire straights, right?

(Pssst, Bill: the skank has no sense of morality. K. Nevermind.)

<snip>

I feel sorry for you if this is your idea of charity. But then, I believe JB posted
something about there being no such thing as charity, selflessness and the like. It
appears he has persuaded you. I'm sorry that you apparently had no better
influences, or chose not to listen to them in favor of predators.

-- Catherine

From: "Catherine" <Catherine@yahoo!!!.com>
Subject: Coming soon - the Exploitive Blando Patch (was Wanted, 80's Drum Corps
Patches)
Message-ID: <fLd8i.24967$JZ3.2167@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:53:31 GMT

That one simply hasta be inferred - and should be looked for.

<TaxmanG@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180655072.696982.145020@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I lost a lot of patches at one point, and I am looking
to reacquire, or acquire as many as possible from
the years I marched. Here is a list of possible
patches I am looking for. I you happen to have any
of these you are willing to part with, please drop me
an email or PM and we will see whether we can work
something out. Some of these patches may not
exist, but I am interested if they do. I know that
most of these DCI regional patches were not normally
year specific, so I am quite flexible in what I might be
willing to buy.

1982
U.S. Open
American International Championships
DCI Championships - Montreal

1983
CYO Nationals
DCI South (Atlanta)
DCI Championships - Miami
DCI Semi-Finalist (was there such a patch?)

1984
DCI Championships - Atlanta

1995
DCI East (Allentown)

1986
DCI South (Birmingham)

Velvet Knights Member patch, any year above made other than 1984.


Thanks for looking.




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