Re: I'm toning down my involvement in RADW

Ignis Fatuus wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 14:49:15 +0100, "TheMuntDregger2"
<OldMunty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yads definitely was not taken in by the ruse, neither was Ignis,
Smarty, Diane, Peachy
Ged, Po etc. Even Aggy resisted the bait. I think they all saw it as
just an amusingly
poor troll rather than a serious attempt to *** stir.

It was slightly more than that. A lot of threads terminated and
regulars legged it to the shelters, because the general expectation
was a shedload of acolytes trailing and impersonating in his wake,
with the sole objective of creating as much confusion and humiliation
as possible.


I had no idea about that previously, but I agree that is a far more serious
matter. I dislike anything that discourages free discussion within a group
or threatens the diversity within usenet. To my mind, a load of upa'ers
invading yet another group and turning it into another banal copy is a bad
thing. I've seen it happen too many times of before and usenet is now
littered by dead groups or copies of afkmn inhabited by the same old
same old.

Any group like this relies on trust. We don't 'know' each other, but
we converse, argue, and abuse each other without trying to trick,
deceive, and deliberately make fools of each other.

Trolls, and to a lesser extent Kooks, undermine that trust, and make
Usenet a difficult place for less domineering personalities to discuss
their interests without being lured into traps.

Agreed, but it really depends on the individual concerned. I come from
a support group tradition where trolling has a completely different focus
and is more focused on ensuring less domineering personalities are
empowered and not bullied.

The incursions of ***-stirrers drive away a lot of people whose views
and conversation might be interesting and relevant to those of us who
remain.


Absolutely.

Yads invited Chucky to flame the group, and you were holding his hand
when he arrived - with the stated intention of turning the place into
a smoking crater;

I appreciate thats how it may have looked, but its really not the case. I
picked
up on Bill's activities after he posted a general notice on a upa group
inviting all
and sundry to a flame war between radw and ash. It annoyed me that someone
would actually engage in this type of vandalism for exactly the reasons
previously
outlined and especially after the chaos caused by Bill on ash. I can assure
you that
I was not in cahoots with Bill, far from it. Indeed, prior to posting on
radw, I had
had no previous direct contact with him. Similarly, I am not a regular on
ash or any
upa group or part of any cabal.

so you'll forgive me for saying that you've by no
means earned my trust.

It takes time for trust to be earned, especially on a media such as usenet.
However, Google does allow you to a kind of reference test on stuff
that i've posted in the past. I would exactly paint myself as a paragon
of virtue and some of the stuff I've done has been pretty red blooded
and virolent. However, I hope its balanced by the number of times I
have gone out of my way to help and support others, and also
apologised to people if I was wrong or overstepped the mark.
I am just as proud of the depression support stuff I've been involved in,
than the flames and trolls. I also enjoy that aspect equally.


As a result I've spent some time in that
desolate crypt called Auk - where there's no direct communication
because the self-obsessed sneermongers are too busy filing their
reports. It's my own personal vision of Cyberspace Hell, and it's no
wonder that the occupants are desperate to escape and find green and
pleasant lands to lay waste.


Alas AUK is probably far worse than you think. It's not really a discussion
group anymore, but somewhere were kookologists post evidendence of
kooky behaviour. Alas for auk, there's a fine line between the two which
most of their number crossed alittle while back and who are presently
subject to court action. However, not all kookolists are bad. Both Bob
Larter and Kali have hearts of gold.

The trouble with Kooks and Trolls is they need an audience to admire
their cleverness - hence the X-posting. Google Groups is an excellent
resource for following them round their haunts. They're vulnerable to
attack because they hate the very thing that they distribute -
ridicule.

There's a variety of motivations towards negative trolling. Some wish to
show off, some are simply bad and others are simply ill. I will admit that
Xposting is a much misused feature of usenet. Much of it occurs because
the upa tradition frowns on 'diddling', ie removing the xpost on any follow
up to a previously xposted thread. For my part, I have been removing
xposted groups on follow ups. Its not that I'm against xposting in general,
simply that I think its got a bit tired in this particular instance. I do
not
agree withy any activity that is carried out purely for the purpose of
humiliating or causing pain.

The Grand Panjandrum of AUK is visibly quite miffed at my feeble
attempts at lampooning his awards - and muttering dire warnings of
Tinpot Sombreros if they continue. Now you can't treat something as a
joke and take it seriously at the same time without living in a state
of utter paranoia; and he can't expect respect when he shows none.

In defence of Bob Larter, he was being socked/frogged, ie impersonated.
I fell for it and ended up having to apologise for flaming him into a
shallow
crature. I should have taken the time to check the headers instead of
falling for such a stupid trick as the real Bob is an extremely convivial
and mild mannered chap.

This business escalated - not because of Chucky - but because Yads
nominated one of ours for a dose of ridicule, and he passed it through
on the nod. That was a gesture of contempt, and he should expect
nothing else in return.

I do get your point here. However, it's not something that I got involved
in. My nominations were for %percent% because of his activities of
spaming alt.support.depression and to a lesser extent ash. I also
seconded a nomination made by the flonk for an award to Clucky.
Since posting here, I have studiously avoided being caught up in
any internal politics as I'm not yet sure of the landscape.

I take the piss within the group - so do we all; but I don't go out of
my way to cause discomfort and humiliation to individuals who are
pursuing their legitimate interests, and participating in group
activities, without causing inconvenience to anyone else.

Ditto. I agree and share your outlook on such matters.

Perhaps AUK should look long and hard at themselves before going round
disrupting the net for others.

It wasn't auk doing the disrupting. I beleive that Clucky tried to pull a
similar
trick to his previous failed invasion of radw, but this time inviting others
to
join a war between radw and auk. Luckily, as he has utterly no gravitas
elsewhere, the only people he could attract to his cause were complete no
hopers with the attention span of a gnat. It was around about this time that
he caught the attention of Sweetness who's role is not dissimilar to mine,
ie white trolling. Believe mem, auk do not mount invasions of other groups
neither are they in a position to do so at the moment. It was simply Bill
chancing his arm seeing if he could take advantage of their current weakness
and relative disarray.

I should just like to clarify again that my interest in this group is not
about
disrupting, humiliating, or annoying anyone. I recognise that some of you
are sensitive about my presence and obviously so given your experience
with clucky. However, I am not he. I suspect that some may mistake my
politeness either as a trap, or as weakness. Both would be quite wrong.

Please, if it would help to give further assurance, feel free to ask me
anything
about my background, circumstance etc :)

--
The MuntDregger

Commander UPSD Expeditionary Forces
Current Holder UPSD 'Bon Accord de trolls'
#14 least supportive UPSD troll
Undisputed Lord of Chaos 21/4/2009
UPSD Vile Evil *** of the Year Award (2007)
Semi Finals UPSD Copralite Hurling Championship
Colonel UPSD 1st Heavy Paroxetine Division
Member of the campaign against *ghey* footy froups
Appointed Official UPSD trollfare poet 28/4/2009
Plus a hat made from the scalp of Bill Jillians 29/4/2009


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