Re: Proms


"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:of2dnXfX7NBaYAzV4p2dnAA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


<<<such musical forms as arpeggios and tones like baritone and tenor, but
that doesn't mean we write songs in Italian. It just indicates that
Italian is the language used by the people who developed the Western
musical vocabulary. It doesn't suggest that blues is derived from
Italian opera music because it shares the same vocabulary. It sounds
from your examples as though something similar is the case in
rembetika, and the fact that the actual songs themselves are in Greek
or Turkish rather reinforces my point - it flags up the fact that the
Arabic musical vocabulary has a different origin from the language of
that particular style of music.>>>

YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Arabic music is polytonal and based on 24 tones per octave whereas western
music is based on 12 tones per octave and its composition is based on
harmony whereas Greek and Arabic music are base on modality. Both Arabic
(except for the drum beats) and Western music derive from Byzantine music
which ultimately derives from Pythagoras and the scales and modes of the
ancient Greeks.

Can you play anything? Do you know anything about music, apart from how to
load a CD and press the "play" button?

Polytonal just means that 2 different keys are used at the same time. The
Western scale has 8 notes in an octave. That's why it's called an octave!
And a major scale contains 2 tones, a semi-tone, 3 tones and a semitone. 12
semitones maybe. Certainly not 12 tones.

As for the rest of your statement... I don't even know where to begin. So I
won't.



It's not Anglo anything. It's Greek, Jewish, Latin, Irish, French and
African in origin.

Aggy, I really wish you'd invest in a course in basic English
comprehension. "Anglo-American popular music" - i.e. popular music
from England and America (but conventionally the Anglophone world

Blues did not originated from England or from any Englishman.

generally), the tradition that encompasses most popular music in the
English-speaking world for the past century, regardless of its

Oh, right, and English music's indigenous contribution to popular music
in
the past 100 years is what precisely? SKIFFLE! Yep, that's it. Skiffle
and
nothing more. And then only because the Beatles originated from a Skiffle
band. That's England's sole indigenous contribution to popular music in
the
past century, and long after Blues had evolved, which clearly isn't
Skiffle.

<<<You're forgetting metal, which derived out of British interpretations
of American blues, but that's beside the point. Read the above again.>>>

Metal may have been invented by the British, but it has nothing whatsoever
to do with traditional English music, which culminated in Skiffle and
songs like "When I'm Cleaning Windows", and the Dad's Army theme "Who Do
You Think You Are Kidding Mister Hitler" and finally died with the last of
the Music Halls. The last traditional English song I can remeber that has
any kind of fame is the theme to the film "Up Pompeii" which is Music
Hall. That's English music for you, "The Good Old Days" series on the BBC
sums it all up.

<<<I'm not making any claims for the English originating popular music -
but it is in England and America that the 'popular music' of the
English-speaking world was popularised. That's what's meant by "Anglo->>>

Popular music of the English speaking word which originated not from
English music but from Latin, Greek, Jewish, French, Gospel and Irish
music which culminated in the creation of Blues and Rock and Roll.

<<<American popular music", and it's not a phrase I invented. If you>>>

No. It is plainly just "American" popular music. The English just copied
it.

If you are talking about Pop, then that clearly is a later development by
the Beatles which includes clear Greek and Indian influences. At the same
time there was Eurobeat which developed from Latin, European popular music
and classical, and ultimately that became Dance Music.

<<<prefer I could call it Western popular music, but there are plenty of
European musical forms that don't have strong ties to the music of the
US and Britain.>>>

What music from Britain? Where are the influences from Music Hall and
Skiffle?

You're confusing arrangement and style. Given your obsessively literal
use of language, you shouldn't make that mistake. Arrangement is quite
literally the way the notes in a piece are arranged - inflection,
speed, instrumentation, accompaniment are all elements of style.

IDIOT! Does arrangement mean using completely different notes? NO!

<<<IDIOT! Did I say it did? NO! It's about playing all the right notes,>>>

That's what you said when you claimed *** Dale changed all the notes of
Misirlou.

<<<but not necessarily in the right order.>>>

TWADDLE! That's Eric Morecombe.

in this case, millennia before he actually got to India, whereupon the

Nope. You said the Indian instruments were 2,000 years old.

<<<5,000.>>>

According to who? Where is the evidence for such instruments and how the
were tuned?

guitar would mysteriously go unknown in the non-Grecian parts of
Europe until someone happened to bring it back from India.

They didn't bring it back from India. It came from Byzantium just like
the
Violin

<<<Wikipedia notes that it reached Europe from South Asia. And since it
was still there nine minutes later it must be true.>>>

CODSWALLOP!

Herodotus refers to Arion playing the Kithara or Guitar at the time of
Perriander in about 600 BC. It has nothing to do with India. It's
invention dates to Mycenaean times when stings were strung across a turtle
shell with a handle attached to it.

which was originally the same shape as a guitar and played vertically
like a double bass.

<<<As I say, there's a Khmer violin (that's even the English translation)
that has a long history and the region - and you're not going to claim
that this was derived from Greek or Byzantine instruments because its
appearance is very different; it's a pole attached to a wooden
sounding box with a string pulled taught from the top to the bottom>>>

The Byzantine violin looks exactly like a modern guitar played vertically
with a bow.

<<<like a bow string, and wound around a violin bow. You play by moving
the bow horizontally as with a violin, while holding the string down
to change the note rather like a guitar.and moving the bow up and
down.>>>

Sounds like an instrument from a Skiffle band.


The Beatles also covered Miks Theodorakis.

The Honeymoon Song (1959), released on the Beatles Live at the BBC album.
This is the stuff The Beatles were playing before they became famous.

<<<*One* of his songs? This is meant to denote drawing their material
largely from rembetika (notwithstanding that Theodorakis didn't
actually play rembitaka,

You are talking COMPLETE AND UTTER BOLLOCKS as usual.

Theodorakis wrote Rembetika songs for Mpithikotsis and others and both
performed together.

<<<and your original claim was that rembetika
led to rock, not pop).>>>

WRONG. I said it led to both.



Which pieces? Did they cite him as an inspiration they did the rock
'n' roll acts they covered, or just like the music?

Yep, more or less. The Honeymoon Song is apparently one of Paul
McCartney's
favourites. He also produced it for Mary Hopkins first album.

<<<Okay, but it's still a huge stretch to call one song the formative
influence of the Beatles' sound.>>>

Try composers. It's obvious McCartney was influenced by Theodorakis and
the Entechno genera when he went classical.

Where on earth do you find "orchestral harmonies" of any sort in
computer music? It doesn't even use instruments other than
percussion
and the computers themselves!

Once more you don't know what you are talking about. You probably
don't
even
know what a chord is.

I play guitar, Aggy. It's quite helpful to know what a chord is.

Well that's your problem then. You play guitar so you think you know
everything there is to know about music.

<<<FOOL! I play guitar because I like guitar music - and have a
particular interest in the history of its development. That's where my
knowledge of the subject comes from - and while I may have missed the
Forsythe documentary (if I'd known about it I might have watched it
despite the presenter), I have watched a number of excellent series on
the history of blues, country, and Western pop music generally
(except, admittedly, for electronic and rap stuff, though I picked up>>>

Oh well, Bruce Forsyth explained where all that came from also, and showed
that his generation and his predecessors originated break dancing.

<<<the background to the latter from National Geographic) among other
sources, sources you're plainly ignorant of.>>>

You mean sources you don't understand or are completely ignorant.



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