Re: S4E02 Up Doctor Who


<pbowles@xxxxxxx> wrote in message news:c87b5f0d-34ff-4c2b-849b-cb45af9a83b0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 13 Apr, 20:20, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<pbow...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:41c7cc8c-74c0-462d-b134-bf84d8391ea0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





> On 13 Apr, 15:14, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> <pbow...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

>>news:179bbd0a-344b-434e-8d4d-e4413e76358e@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>> > On 13 Apr, 01:12, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> "The Real Zarbiface" <zarbif...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:682cef3c-cead-44bc-9f25-d78bc20d530d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>> >> > On Apr 13, 12:28 am, "Bazza" <bazza2...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> "Mr.Smartypants" <anybod...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

>> >> >>news:dae1402a-66f4-43c2-ba23-f802007f0992@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> On Apr 12, 5:07 pm, The Real Zarbiface >> >> >> <zarbif...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> wrote:

>> >> >> > On Apr 12, 9:11 pm, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > wrote:

>> >> >> > > Another childish comedy. All that was missing was Frankie
>> >> >> > > Howard
>> >> >> > > going,
>> >> >> > > Ooh
>> >> >> > > er missus, ye jest, ye jest, you are mocking Francis, nay, >> >> >> > > nay,
>> >> >> > > and
>> >> >> > > thrice
>> >> >> > > nay, you are mocking Doctor Who. Yes, you are mocking Doctor
>> >> >> > > Who!

>> >> >> > You're entitled to your opinion Aggy but what a shame you're >> >> >> > so
>> >> >> > clueless about everything that your opinions are always crap.

>> >> >> > > There was no need for a homage to Del Boy and Lovely Jubbley

>> >> >> > Except for the very good reason that it'd amuse the viewers. >> >> >> > Most
>> >> >> > people want ENTERTAINMENT on a Saturday evening Aggy. Doctor >> >> >> > Who
>> >> >> > isn't, and never has been, hard SF. Get used to it!

>> >> >> > The point was that the TARDIS translates language. A rather
>> >> >> > clever
>> >> >> > idea which now explains why all the aliens since 1963 spoke
>> >> >> > English.
>> >> >> > The TARDIS translated Latin into what Donna would be familiar
>> >> >> > with;
>> >> >> > modern London slang. That's why, when she actually spoke >> >> >> > Latin,
>> >> >> > which
>> >> >> > to their ears would be translated into modern English, they
>> >> >> > thought
>> >> >> > she was a Celt. (As this was pre-cockney times they assumed it
>> >> >> > was
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > nearest language that it sounded like to them, Celtic.)

>> >> >> > >and no need for
>> >> >> > > stupid GK Maximus and I Came, I Saw, I Conquered jokes by >> >> >> > > Donna
>> >> >> > > and
>> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> > > moronic They must be Celtic running gag. Why couldn't they >> >> >> > > have
>> >> >> > > played
>> >> >> > > it
>> >> >> > > seriously for a change?

>> >> >> > Most of it was very serious. You must have missed that while >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > were
>> >> >> > shouting at the screen like a demented loony.

>> >> >> Ok...the JOKE was actually T K Maximus. It refers to the UK >> >> >> chain
>> >> >> store
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> bargain designer clothing T K Max. Hope that clears that one up >> >> >> for
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> illiterate and the foreigners.

>> >> >> Secondly....the TARDIS translation program...when did it do
>> >> >> accents? I
>> >> >> don't
>> >> >> remember any Hartnell historical characters taking on cockney
>> >> >> accents
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> Del Boy characteristics. Whatever you say Aggy is correct on >> >> >> this
>> >> >> point.
>> >> >> Whilst (as viewers) we all understand the requirement to >> >> >> transmit
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> program in English rather than latin - and also appreciate the
>> >> >> throw
>> >> >> away
>> >> >> lines in the past to the never fully explained psychic >> >> >> properties
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> Tardis translating alien languages - it's a bit bloody too much
>> >> >> when
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> becomes a parody. Ever seen the movie Spartacus? 300? Even the
>> >> >> popular
>> >> >> mini
>> >> >> series Rome? Sure...they all speak English..but they speak it as >> >> >> we
>> >> >> expect
>> >> >> Romans would speak it! It just adds to the reality of the show. >> >> >> Use
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> southern English actor by all means but at least give them lines
>> >> >> suitable
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> the era. God knows what else the Tardis translator has taken
>> >> >> liberties
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> eh? Perhaps the Daleks really all sound like Po from the
>> >> >> Teletubbies
>> >> >> but
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> only "hear" what the Tardis wants us to? Sorry RTD...this >> >> >> sucked.

>> >> >> Baz

>> >> > Romans speaking with RADA accents was all well and good in the
>> >> > sixties, when that was the norm in tv drama, but the norm TODAY >> >> > is
>> >> > for
>> >> > tv drama to feature regional accents. RTD and his team are trying >> >> > to
>> >> > attract viewers who have grown up on watching Eastenders and The
>> >> > Bill.

>> >> TWADDLE AND HOGWASH!

>> >> Accents have nothing to do with this issue. The Romans did NOT >> >> speak
>> >> in a
>> >> cockney dialect

>> > Or a middle England dialect. Or speak English. But in the episode >> > they
>> > are speaking English, and can't speak with Italian accents because >> > the
>> > inflections would be all wrong and would just make people wonder why
>> > the TARDIS doesn't translate more precisely. Cockney's no more of a
>> > stretch than these allowances - the actors have to speak with *some*
>> > accent.

>> BULL***!

>> LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ACCENT AND DIALECT or shall we add both >> to
>> the
>> numerous list of words you don't understand?

> Note that one of the differences between accent and dialect is that
> Cockney is an accent, not a dialect.

YOU STUPID IGNORANT!

You still don't know the meaning of accent and the meaning of dialect.

Accent is the way you pronounced words. Dialect is the words that you use.

Wow, you actually defined two words and got both of them correct. That
must be a first.

Cockney is a dialect.

Oh well, two out of three ain't bad. Cockney is an accent,
characterised by glottlestopping and dropping 'h's from words, and
generally sounding like the stallholder we're arguing about. It isn't
the words being used.

WRONG!

Cockney is a dialect.


>> > off" and "give me a break" which are (a) idiosyncratic terms which
>> > have completely different meanings when used as slang or as standard
>> > English, and (b) aren't contemporary with Donna that I have problems
>> > with it. Of course, the TARDIS translation explanation doesn't make
>> > any sense for scenes where Donna and the Doctor aren't present >> > anyway,
>> > but one has to make allowances to some degree - they aren't going to
>> > train all their actors to speak Latin with appropriate accents for
>> > extended scenes.

>> IDIOT! Accent's have nothing to do with it. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT >> DIALECT!

> *sigh* Try rereading - "they aren't going to train all their actors
> *to speak Latin* [dialect] *with appropriate accents* [accent], which

YOU STUPID!

I like this one. It's funnier than YOU IGNORANT!

FOOL!


WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DIALECT!

They do not need to train their actors to speak in a dialect. They just tell
them to say the words written in the script which are already written in the
appropriate dialect, using their own normal accent

You will start spouting before reading the full context, won't you? I
already addressed this - speaking Latin in an English accent would be
worse from a plausibility standpoint than having them use modern
slang, quite apart from the fact that they'd be mispronouncing the
words so badly they wouldn't make sense anyway.

IMBECILE!

You don't understand the meaning of DIALECT. Dialect is NOT speaking Latin in an English accent you moron. It is using the same expressions and figures of speech as the Romans did translated in English. Lovely Jubbley was not one of them.


> is the only way to make the scenes without Donna or the Doctor to
> translate sound 'realistic', as neither Latin with English accents or
> English with Italian accents would be appropriate.

FOOL!

Italian-American dialect and mannerisms are virtually identical to
British-Italian dialect and mannerisms. An ancient Italian would behave and
use vocabulary like the tour guide in the confidential episode or Bruno
Torlioni or Don Corlioni in the Godfather films irrespective of what their
accents was, not like Del Boy Trotter.

I've addressed this as well.

No you did not. You still don't understand what dialect means.


>> > Oh come on, Aggy. Your review mentioned "I came, I saw, I conquered"
>> > because you couldn't remember "veni, vidi, vici". So I doubt you've
>> > read much Latin.

>> No. I said "I came, I saw, I conquered" because that is what it "veni,
>> vidi,
>> vici" translates as, and this was not even mentioned in the episode >> for
>> those that didn't know.

> Ah, so you were just saying "Ah, look at me, I know three words of
> Latin!" instead of using the English because you'd forgotten what
> Donna actually said but vaguely knew from rote learrning that the
> thing with three vs meant "I came, I saw, I conquered".

YOU IGNORANT! Unlike you I actually have my Latin translations published.

Care to cite an example?

Jerome's Chronicon collaborative translation.


>> > Thought they were a ripoff from Spartacus, myself...

>> No, its from the next to final scene of The Life of Brian where the >> bloke
>> on
>> the cross says I'm Brian and my wife's Brian too.

> Get a clue, Aggy. Where do you think Monty Python got that from?
> Believe it or not, sending up the "I'm Spartacus" routine was not
> original or exclusive to The Life of Brian.

But the My wife's Brian too is, and that was what was being parodied.

I suppose it could be read that way; to me it was just a straight "I'm
Spartacus" gag.

Phil

.