Re: Dawkins, Davies and daughters

On 2008-04-10 00:01:06 +0100, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> said:

That's not the point I made. What I said is that you are free because
the laws of nature are predictable and consistent. Whether they are the
product of God or not is entirely another matter. Without consistent
predictable laws of nature there could be no freedom or moral
responsibility. With consistent predictable laws of nature there will
inevitably be tragedy.

No. There is moral responsibility because I have a functioning brain
and a sense of empathy. the speed of light in a vacuum has bugger all
to do with it.

No. It doesn't. I suspect you don't use the speed of light in a vacuum in everyday life any more than I do. I suspect you may use the physics of forces, however. Suppose you have a hammer in your hand. You would know not to apply it to somebody's skull because you know the damage it could cause. But you have that choice. What if the hammer behaved differently in different circumstances, though?


How many must the gods arbitrarily kill before it's too high a price
for deity-inspired free will?

You decide. How ready are you to give up your freedom, your
intelligence, your ability to think?

I'm not. Nor do I pass the buck and blame evil on superbeings.

Nor do I. As I think I've mentioned.


When God decided there was too much evil in the world, he sent a flood to
kill everyone off. One assumes God knew what he was doing at the time. Was
his action successful?

Again, this is a myth and should be understood as such.

Maybe if we narrowed it down then. Which parts of your bible aren't
myth and parable?

That would require an answer that would take rather a long time.

Let's try a top five then:

Virgin birth?
OK with it. It's not essential to my faith.

Resurrection?
Yup.

Raising the dead?
Yup.

Walking on water?
Happy to accept it happened. Not essential to my faith

Water into wine?
In two minds about that one. Doesn't really matter to me

So a god sacrificed himself to atone for a sin you believe is a myth,
while never really risking his life at all of course because he's,
well, a god. Have I pretty much got it right?

No. You've got it pretty much entirely wrong. I don't believe sin is a myth (I'm fully aware that I've done some real bad things). Jesus was completely human (as well as divine) so his life really was forfeit. His experience on the Cross was exactly that of any other human being.


Can I interest you in the Brooklyn bridge?

There's a broad spectrum from myth on one hand to history on the other
with every shade of accuracy in between. For some parts of the Bible it
makes no sense whatever to talk in terms of 'fact or parable'.

Right. So leave parables to one side, and tell me what's fact.

Jesus existed. He came from Nazareth. He was crucified. His followers
held that he had been restored to life. Paul of Tarsus rejected his
Jewish upbringing and proselytised widely in the years around 40-65 AD.

In Old Testament terms. An independent kingdom existed in what is
roughly now Israel. Its first king was David, but it divided into two
at a fairly early stage. The two parts were taken under the government
of Assyria and, later, Babylonia. When the Babylonian Empire fell to
the Persians a degree of autonomy was regained by Judea.

Look - the Bible is a lengthy book - if you want more than a broad
outline then you may have to do the legwork yourself and actually go
and find out what Bible scholars say about the specifics.

Where's the religion? All you've listed is some questionable history.

You asked for facts. The religion is a deduction from the facts.

.

Relevant Pages

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