Re: Smith and Jones science (Was: Doctor Who progressive or interlaced?)


"Astrobiochemist" <CCSBeyond@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1175883106.612372.192340@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > She's creating the large field through the act of blowing up her
>> > transducer (in her case, an MRI) which is how extremely powerful
>> > magnetic fields are created on Earth. She will need to use an
>> > extremely powerful energy source to do this but the Doctor can see >> > the
>> > early effects of her modifications to the MRI so she obviously has
>> > one.

>> She might be creating a magnetic filed but it will only be one of a >> very,
>> very, very, limited range just like the ones generated on Earth. It is
>> not
>> going to harm anyone in the hospital unless they are lying inside the >> MRI
>> scanner let alone anyone on Earth.

> Actually, if you've used an MRI, you'll know that if you stand next to
> it but still outside of it, wearing some sort of ferrous-metal, maybe
> in your watch, the it will be attracted to the MRI. The field is not
> just inside the MRI but also passes outside of it. It's just then the
> field is only uniform inside the MRI. (it's an example of a Solenoid)

Will it fry your brain. Will it fry the brain of anyone inside the machine.
No.

That's because it's only using about 9 Teslas. But you will agree
that the field passes outside of the MRI, right?

The filed is very short range.


>> Where are these alien devices? How come there were no sconces showing
>> them

> Because besides having to show a story, Doctor Who also needs to be a
> certain length so it can't spend 20 minutes explaining how a device
> works or showing someone setting up their plan, as much as we'd like

Well it could have had the 20 minutes it needed by cutting out all the soap.
And in any case the idea RTD came up was total and utter unscientific
garbage and he should have been forced to re-write his script and come up
with a better idea, like the one I suggested in my re-write, which would not
have require any detailed explanation.

We also learned a lot more about Martha's family in the episode than
in your version.

Martha's family is totally irrelevant to plot development, so the less there is to do with them the better.

Since the episode was called "Smith and Jones" and
involved introducing the new companion to the audience (as well as to
the Doctor), that is what those 20 minutes are for.

No it is not. Those 20 minutes should have been used to develop a plot. In fact having watched the commentary it turns out that the episode actual under-ran originally, so it is clear the RTD is totally incapable of developing a plot even when there is plenty of time to do it in.


> It really isn't contained in the MRI scanner, the field goes outside
> of the MRI itself.

The MRI scanner has shielding and probably has focusing devices like the
pieces of metal you put on the end of magnets to concentrate the field in
one area.

The control room is shielded from the MRI and the scanner has thermal

Wrong. The control room is separated from the scanner by a glass window and a uncovered doorway. There is no shielding there at all. In fact they used the same set where they filmed the X-ray machine scenes on.

insulation to protect it from the liquid helium used to cool the coils
but the MRI scanner itself is not shielded, no.

Of course its shielded. The designers don't want external radiation to interfere with their measuring instruments.


As for controlling the field, that's all done with the solenoids
themselves.

And if you are asking yourself why I know so much about MRIs, that's
because 1) I use an NMR often at work (and as you know an NMR and MRI
are extremely similar) and 2) I looked it up, like you suggested.
Very interesting reading.

In which case you should know that what RTD was suggesting is physically impossible to do with such a device.


> Really? What is the exact explanation of how the TARDIS travels in
> time or how it makes a forcefield? And be specific.

It travels in the Space-Time vortex and it makes its forcefield using one of
those whatsit surfboard extrapolator things that the Doctor and Captain Jack
pluged into it.

But HOW does it travel in the space-time vortex? How does the whatsit
surfboard extrapolator things make the forcefield?

The TARDIS is Timelord technology and works on a principle which allows it to travel in space and time which is explained in Shada and which alows it to generate a force filed.

An MRI scanner operates on the principles of 20th century physics and these prevent it from doing what RTD is trying to make it do.


>> > just the niche of science fiction nerds but a general audience at
>> > large.

>> In which case there must be scientific explanations of how things work
>> and
>> why they are going to harm people, because the ordinary members for >> the
>> audience who have passed their GCSE in magnetism and even those who >> have
>> not
>> know perfectly well the when picking up something up a magnet and then
>> moving it away the force drops off very quickly. It is a short range
>> force
>> so how is a 50 kT field generated inside a magnetically shielded MRI
>> scanner
>> in a very tiny space going to reach the Earth at sufficient intensity >> to
>> kill people? And what the hell is it being powered by anyway?

> With a very powerful, large field, which she is trying to make, the
> waves will propagate to Earth. I have already answered how it is
> powered.

POPPY***. The magnetic field strength will dissipate to almost nothing
within meters of the machine even if guides were used to try to focus it
(which would have to be strung all the way through space in the direction of
the Earth). There is nothing that is powerful enough which can produce a
sufficiently strong enough filed that would have a strength of 50 kT at the
distance of the Earth from the moon except a super nova (and even that is
questionable, but at least you get a gamma ray burst which will do the job
of killing everyone).

Just as a point of clarification, you keep talking about a neutron
star creation event (which, yes is either a Type II, Type Ib, or Type
Ic supernova) but it's not just the creation of the neutron star when
a field in the megatesla range is produced, the neutron star is
producing a field of that strength the entire time. So, you can just
say a neutron star.

Neutron stars tend to cool down over time and this cooling probably affects the magnetic filed they can produce, but I'm no expert.


But anyway, for the field to reach the earth, it does need more than a
high field strength, it also needs a high vector potential for the
field. And apparently, it does have a high vector potential since all
the chaarcters say that the field is powerful enough to reach the
Earth.

It hasn't been created yet so it can't have a high anything and the way the old lady is going about creating it isn't going to produce anything at all except maybe large explosion of an MRI scanner whose solenoid and cooling system can't take the power, assuming the EPS conduits, I mean power cables don't melt first.


Also remember that the Plasmavore is only intentionally trying to blow
out the brains of the Judoon specifically, so she can stop them from
capturing her and steal their ships to escape (and we are already

She cannot escape use the Judoon ships to escape after she has set off the device to cripple them because the device will kill her. She has to be clear of the moon and the Earth long before it fires.

discussing the effect of the field on the ships elsewhere, so there is
no need to bring it up in this part of the thread as well). The fact
that the field, in order to be strong enough to hurt the Judoon will
also need to be powerful enough that it will also extend to cover half
the Earth is merely a side-effect, so it seems apparent that the way
she is increasing the strength of the field is also increasing the
fields vector potential.

What utter twaddle. 1) the MRI scanner is not capable of producing the required field in the first place let alone directing it a the Judoon ships, 2) if the field was capable of frying the brains of everyone on Earth it would tare the Judoon space ships to pieces.
..

> > >> > Most modern science fiction writers will agree that it's not
>> >> > mentioning what device powers the magnetic field that would make >> >> > the
>> >> > show science fiction,

>> >> Yes is bloody well is.

> Not according to the list of people below.

Twaddle.







>> >> >it's using an atmosphere (in the metaphorical,
>> >> > not the literal sense) of science (in this case, aliens, being
>> >> > transported on the moon) that makes the show science fiction.

>> >> CARP!

>> > So, you say you know more about writing good science fiction than >> > Rod
>> > Serling, Theodore Sturgeon, Barry N. Malzberg, James Blish,
>> > Christopher Evans, Robert Scholes, Edmund Crispin, John W. Campbell
>> > and Robert A. Heinlein. Well, then you should publish your >> > fantastic
>> > science fiction story so you can show everybody how to do it right.

>> In the words of Jesus Christ, seeing as its Good Friday. It is you >> that
>> say
>> that.

> You didn't say that specifically, but all of those people have
> described Science Fiction as I did so to you and you described that as
> being "CARP." So, either you know better than all of those people or
> you're wrong.

No. What is the genre called "Science Fiction" or "Lets not mention and
science Fiction"?

The genre is called science fiction. And according to all the people
mentioned above, the episode "Smith and Jones" specifically (and
Doctor Who in general) meet the standards to be called science

No it did not because it did not include any science.

fiction. So, either you know better than all those people or those
people know what they are talking about, which would mean that you are
wrong. So, which is it?


RTD does not know any science therefore he cannot write science fiction.

.

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