Re: Only 16 Months Of RTD To Go...


"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Gb6dnR_MKNYFx2HYnZ2dnUVZ8tChnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


From http://www.answers.com/topic/homer "The details of Homer's life are
a
mystery; some scholars believe that no such man ever existed, and that
the
works credited to him were actually told and gathered by many people over
many centuries. Other stories give various birthplaces and ages for Homer
and suggest he was a wandering poet or minstrel."

There is evidence that the Odyssey was written far later than the Iliad.
For
instance, the Phoenicians described in the Iliad are different to the
Phoenicians described in the Odyssey.

"One thing, however, is certain: both epics were created without recourse
to
writing. Between the decline of Mycenaean and the emergence of classical

BULL***. I repeat there is NOT ONE SHRED of historical evidence to
substantiate such a claim and there never has been. All of Homers works we
composed in writing as all historical sources state this.

Most scholars today agree that Homer's poems have their origin in
traditional oral poetry. Exactly when the poems were fixed in the written
form is very much debatable. That you fail to grasp this concept just
reveals how limited your understanding is.

Greek civilization - which is to say, from the late 12th to the mid-8th
century B.C. - the inhabitants of the Greek lands had lost all knowledge
of
the syllabic script of their Mycenaean fore-bears and had not yet
acquired
from the easternmost shore of the Mediterranean that familiarity with

ABSOLUTE COMPLETE AND UTTER RUBBISH.

The fact that Cypriot Bi-Syllabic script was used in Cyprus since Minoan
times up until 400BC disproves this pack of unsubstantiated lies. The
Greeks did not lose the use of their scripts. They replaced Linear A with
Linear B and Cadmian Script and eventually by 900 BC Cadmian script became
the most dominant except in Cyprus where the Cypriot Bi-Syllabic script
was used until Evagoras the Great switched to Cadmian, otherwise how could
the histories of over 200 Greek city states dating back to Minoan times
have been recorded and been in full agreement with the histories of their
neighbours, enemies and far off trading partners both dating wise and
naming the same people as ancestral heroes and describing the same
genealogies and lines of kings. There is NO HISTORICAL RECORD and NOT ONE
SHRED of historical evidence for any of the claims that you make. NOT ONE,
ZILCH. ALL > of the evidence supports that what I say is correct.

You're right, while all the experts in the field is wrong?

You have a scant knowledge of the subject, cling to misunderstandings and
are too stubborn to modify your beliefs.

Phoenician alphabetic writing from which classical Greek literacy (and in

WRONG AGAING

Cadmian script (Phoenician alphabetic writing) was in use since 1430 BC
and THIS DATE IS A RECORDED HISTORICAL FACT. It was brought to Greece by
Cadmus from Egypt at the same time it was brought to Phoenicians by
Phoenix. This now a PROVEN HISTORICAL FACT since both Cadmian and
Phoenician script have been shown to have been derived from Proto-Sinaitic
script which evolved in Egypt in 1700 BC and first appears in Palestine in
1400 BC. Now how do you explain the FACT that Greek historical date for
Cadmian script and the archaeological date for the appearance of the same
script in Palestine and Phoenicia both match and how do you explained that
both the Greek and the archaeological accounts say that this script came
from Egypt unless writing went back to these times and the events were
recorded along with the exact number of yours that passed.


turn, Etruscan, Roman, and modern European literacy) derived. The same
conclusion of illiterate composition may be reached from a critical
inspection of the poems themselves.

Stop spouting out Victorian revisionist GARBAGE which was disproven by
Wolf almost as soon as it started to be spread around by the same people
that made up neo-paganism.

Wolf is your best argument? Wolf's arguments were based on the ideas of his
time. His conclusions were challenged by people such as Nitzsch as early as
1830.

Among many races and in many different
periods there has existed (and still exists sporadically) a form of
purely
oral and unwritten poetic speech, distinguishable from normal and printed

NO THERE HASN'T since NONE of these alleged oral traditions have existed
outside a longstanding written tradition, otherwise you would NEVER be
able to prove any of the claims. In fact none of the claims go back
further than LIVING MEMORY. There is NOT ONE so-called oral tradition that
goes back any further that is not part of a know tradition of performance
of material obtained from a longstanding written tradition.

Idiot. Oral tradition predates written tradition in almost any civilisation
you care to mention. Even once the ability to record language in the written
form had been developed, those with the knowledge to read and write were in
the minority.

literature by special traits that are readily recognizable and
specifically

UTTER GARBAGE. These traits were a work of fiction invented by Parry in
about 1930 and were TOTALLY DEMOLISHED by the proof that Linear B was
Greek by Ventris.

I'm quite happy to accept that Linear B is a form of Greek. I'm quite happy
to believe that Linear B was used between 1500 and 1200 BC. So what?

distinctive. To this class the Homeric epics conform. Hence it would seem
an
inevitable inference that they must have been created either before the
end
of the 8th century B.C. or so shortly after that date that the use of
alphabetic writing had not yet been developed sufficiently to record
lengthy
compositions. It is this illiterate environment that explains the absence
of
all contemporary historical record of the authors of the two great
epics."

TOTALLY WRONG

There is a contemporary historical record of Hesiod since he was falsely
accused of rape and put to death in about 880 BC. Homer lived at the same
time and his works were collected together by Lycurgus who was his
contemporary and the guardian of the Spartan king Charilaus. Wolf has
shown that these works were composed in writing and were the product of
various revisions to the original text by later copyists.

Fool. Both Hesiod and Homer lived before recorded history. Hesiod probably
lived around 700BC. Again, so what?


Ancient Greek is very different to modern Greek. You can't tell me that

LOL... You don't even speak it so how would you know. The answer is that
you don't and not its isn't. Its exactly the same language.

Greeks today use the same language, and in the same way, that Homer
did.

They use exactly the same words that Homer used. There is no requirement
for then to be written in hexameter like Homer wrote them.

There is no more point in speaking classical Greek today in the Athens of
today than there is in speaking Chaucer's English in today's London. The
written language may still be familiar today. The usage of that language
has
still changed.

TOTALLY AND UTTER CRAP.

Classical Greek is as far removed from contemporary Greek as modern
English is from the King James Bible. In other words there is little or no
difference. Koine is as removed from contemporary Greek as modern English
is from Dickens. To make a comparison with Chaucer you have to compare
contemporary Greek with Mycenaean Greek written in Linear B. Homeric Greek
would be of the same vernacular as Shakespeare.

And you will find nobody today speaking in the form of the King James Bible,
Chaucer, or Shakespeare. Neither will find people today conversing with each
other in classical Greek. So what's your point?


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