Re: Attention RADP Friends:

Charlie Foxtrot wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:28:24 -0600, Rudeney <rudeney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


OK, so we agree that you were pulling one of your usual stunts where you climb way out on a limb and bounce up and down to test its strength. Ha ha. Like I said, I figured as much; I just had to keep you going to see how high you'd jump.

The innitial argument was not about the crime but
about the legal system that couldn't deal with someone actually
following their orders and making every attempt to be a good citizen.

Yes, that is right, it was about her violating her probation. While I think the terms of her probation were a bit unreasonable, she did agree to them. I've been in situations where I agreed to terms of a contract (not in a criminal matter, though) that later seemed to be ridiculous. In those situations, I always had to remind myself that I had a chance to dispute the terms but I chose to accept them. I beleive the saying goes, "Even if you poop in your nest, you've still got to sleep there."

Having said that, I really don't doubt that the DA was overzealous in pursuing her on this violation. I think the whole elected DA component of our judicial system is flawed. I'm not exactly sure how to correct it, but it is what it is until we all do something to change it.


Was the kid irrepairably damaged by the incident? Hell no.
I don't believe you can claim that. While it's *possible* that the child will be fine, it could also contribute to psychological damage causing him to have relationship problems in the future. His problems could range from mild depression to being a narcissistic wife-beater.

Is that why I always feel so "blah?"

No comment.


I met Debbie, by accident, after the incident. My position was the
same before I knew her as a person.

Denying someone their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness is a very big thing, to me.

Adults having sex with children is a big thing to me. Even if the child was willing or even the pursuer. It's just not right.

I just think that people should
really evaluate the situation before they up and decide a person needs
to, basically, have their life ended at that point. One does not come
out of prison a free person despite the claim that our penal system is
designed to rehabilitate, not punish. And doing the time isn't
enough, the stigma of being a felon follows one through the rest of
their lives.

I understand that, but even though you believe the child was not harmed, he could be. You need to go re-read your Freud. He may have been a crackpot in some theories, but some of his findings are very valid, especially in cases like this.

I'm sorry, but again we have to disagree on this. Even though this 14yo boy could seemingly have been very mature both physically and mentally, he is still only 14. Remember your comments about how you would not have been able to resist such a situation? And how you suggested few 14yo boys would either? Well, that is why we as a society have decided that it is a serious offense for an adult to have sex with a minor. Even if the boy was in a fit of raging hormones and was very aggressive in pursuing the woman, as an adult, she has a duty to be the reasonable one and take control of such a situation. And if it was a mistake, to certainly not let it happen again.

But the part you leave out of your logic in this argument is that the
14 year old played a MAJOR part in moving the relationship to that
level. There are TWO guilty parties here. Actually three when you
consider the parent who doesn't want to place ANY blame on their
precious child.

Again, my stance is that a 14yo does not have the capacity to be culpable in such a situation. he may think he does, but he is still a child. by the way, I see this as a two-way street - I don't believe a 14yo child should be tried as an adult when they commit "adult" crimes. That's the whole idea behind our legal definition of a "minor". Now, if he's a very mature 17, nearly 18, then maybe, but not at 14.

Actually, do you know WHY the mother even found out? Because the
kid's cousin was effing jealous as Hell that he wasn't getting any!
He only tattled once he figured out that he wasn't going to get to
have sex with her too.
That may be the case, but it still has nothing to do with the fact that it is wrong and illegal for an adult to have sex with a child.

There's an old saying that it's only illegal if you get caught.

So, no, I don't think the kid felt the least bit traumatized by what
was going on.
Just because his hormones were in control does not mean it won't cause problems for him. Again, the psychological effects are as of yet unknown.

With a bit of a background in psychology and sociology, I'm thinking
he's going to be just fine. If anything, he might suffer from guilt
in knowing what happened to Debbie because he was man enough to persue
her and have sex with her but not man enough to take a stand and say,
"Let it go, I'm fine and it was just as much my idea as her's, if not
more so."

That's all on the conscious level. I'm thinking more of problems at the subconscious level.

I wish I could be as pious and pure and good as you, Rodney, and CLAIM
I'd have not had sex with a beautiful blonde 24 year old teacher at 14
but I've got no qualms in being honest with myself and others and
admitting that I would have, without hesitation.
I can say that I would not have done that, and since it didn't happen to me and can't happen to me, there is no way to prove that. So, maybe I'm wrong and maybe my hormones would have won out over my morals and self control. Again, that is why what she did is illegal! She had the responsibility as an adult to not let this happen.

No argument about her responsibility. My stance is she made a mistake
but not one on the level of being persecuted.

You know, I think she make such a mistake and I guess we'll just disagree there.

The difference
between me and the dumb kid in this incident is I'd not have had my
cousin, friends, whatever around to witness anything and I'd have kept
my mouth shut.
Maybe in this case, it was a good thing that the child had a witness so the problem could be handled.

Now, if it happened with my son, would I high-five him and buy him a
new car? No. Duh.
OK, so, you have been strung along. I was pretty certain that all this time you were just playing the role of "big bad winging-cool Mr. Foxtrot". Of course just because a person is acting doesn't necessarily mean there's not a bit of himself in the character.

No, actually, I stated that that statement was not to be taken on a
literal level the first time you went on about it.

But you didn't state that when you wrote it the first time, and you still alluded to being proud of a son that would do such a thing. Regardless, i see through the act.

Would I discuss the situation with him? Yes.

If I found the incident to have been mutually agreed upon and no
pressure was put on him and he wanted to do it, I'd discuss it with
both him and the woman involved and let her know that, yes, it is her
job as the adult to put a halt to it. Then I'd let her know that
future sexual contact WOULD result in my calling in the authorities
and I'd let HIM know that if he persued such things again, HE'D be the
one in trouble.
I'd call the police. I'd hate for my child to be dragged through the "system", but it's the right thing to do. Again, you know this woman, but others do not. She could just as easily be a pedophile and a dangerous predator as a woman who made a mistake. It's probably best to err on the side of over-reaction in such situations, otherwise, you could end up being something of an accessory to other crimes.

But you keep leaving the fact that the kid was an instigator out of
this equation. You have to look at both sides to be fair but I am a
rare breed in that I actually believe in something that simple.

Again, he's not capable of making the decision to be the instigator. his hormones did it to him and while he's 14, he has the Get Out of Jail Free card. At 27 9ar 25 whatever age she was), La Fave is an adult and does not have that.

--

- RODNEY

Tentative Next WDW Vacation
Spring Break 2008
(95 Days To Go!)
.

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