Re: Theories of lead and follow

cs_posting@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

No, not really throwing - that implies propelling an object by
seperating from it.

If we look at the heel lead step in the middle of a pendulum swing,
there's no real throwing there - the body is mostly drifting as a
result of the velocity achieved on the downswing. As it drifts it
pulls the free leg along with it, but the free leg takes quite a while
to even catch up to the standing leg (ideally after the body has passed
beyond the standing foot) and then even longer before it finally gets a
little ahead of the body.

I submit that the motion you describe is sub-optimal
and is what a lot of dancers do. A large percentage
of instructors teach swinging this way, more or less,
and I believe it to be overworking. I did it this way
for many years, and I have danced with many
competitive dancers who simply over-power. The
over-powering causes imbalance, which competitors
then have to compensate by ove-rbraking.

Consider this. When you swim in a pool, the two
primary methods of propulsion is via arm strokes
(with some leg kicking) and the leg kick-off against
the side of the pool. A good kick-off provides far
more power than many arm strokes. Furthermore,
the kick-off should be executed prior to any arm
strokes, to get the maximum effect of the leg
extension. Early stroking defeats the movement
and wastes energy.

The swing motion has the same analogy. Many
dancers power to the moving leg prematurely,
defeating the power that comes naturally from
the standing leg. When you can consciously
understand the phases of standing-leg motion,
including body tilt, set-up, body rolling over
legs, and leg rolling over foot, then you will
probably be doing body swings effortlessly.

If we're dancing an upswing, on arrival on the heel lead we let our
hips proceede fairly directly over the foot, with our weight rolling to
the toe, such that the heel actually lifts off the floor before the new
moving foot passes. The hips are now moving forward and upward faster
than the body, and just starting to develop the position we call sway.

Your sway starts too late. Ignore the black-and-
white technique books... no sway can often be
"a little" sway.

As we continue to move towards the toe lead, the sway is really
developing. Initially there's a straight line from the leading
shoulder down to the hip, and then a gracefull bend because the free
leg is trailing far behind the hip. Gradually the free leg catches up
to the body, until it extends the shoulder to hip line (but doesn't
really cross it by much). Because the whole body is inclined in sway,
the toe lead can land further down the floor than the upper body, while
still being aligned "under" the upper body - aligned with the body
axis.

The free leg should not be catching up to the body.
It's there to "receive" the body... and because of
the weighting on the standing leg, the moving leg
can "slide" even further forward. Very similar to
skiing.

I personally believe the movement/hold in (relaxed)
Samba rolls often has superior positioning than a lot
of the rigid/misplaced Standard dance hold (at
least done by many pros). Can you figure out
why?

There's certainly a lot of miscoordinated standard out there, but I'm
not sure what particular aspect you would change, no.

If as the leader, you've ever executed a nice Running
Finish (especially in QS, where dancers tend to
maintain more continuity), you should understand the
necessary body sway/motion to execute this movement
effortlessly. Now, consider the screwed up body position
of followers, as they move backwards and you may come
to the conclusion that "Standard" dance holds are simply
wrong. To move properly, the spine needs to be
straight, aligned along the direction of the supporting feet.
That's why the "Latin" hold in Samba rolls is more
vector-wise correct because the dancer moving backwards
sways/leans forwards.

If you ever watched the 60-minutes segment where
Bode Miller explained his exercise regimen, you'd find
that the primary thing he does is squats (building thigh,
calves, and ankles). Propulsion for skiing comes from
the ability to power out from the feet towards the
head. Squat extensions/degrees are highly controllable
because of the way the body is built, allowing for fine
grain of movement. Propulsion for dancing is similar,
provided one understands how/why to sway. BTW,
Ballet is full of squat-type exercises.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Theories of lead and follow
    ... If we look at the heel lead step in the middle of a pendulum swing, ... pulls the free leg along with it, but the free leg takes quite a while ... because they are not moving in the way I described. ... Your sway starts too late. ...
    (rec.arts.dance)
  • Hip rotation in walking
    ... I find this very suprising, as in actual human walking, it is the hip ... opposite the moving leg which moves forward, not the hip of the moving ... weight forward from the supporting leg - swinging the free leg is only ...
    (comp.graphics.animation)
  • Re: Theories of lead and follow
    ... pulls the free leg along with it, but the free leg takes quite a while ... extremely few dancers do this well. ... of potential energy). ... If you have sway before the swing, ...
    (rec.arts.dance)
  • Re: Theories of lead and follow
    ... the moving leg, ... That point is part of a forward heel lead, and it has no sway, ... because at that point in time your body is ahead of your leg. ... CG, but that's non-swinging motion. ...
    (rec.arts.dance)
  • Re: Theories of lead and follow
    ... of support from the standing foot. ... Sway (swing and all ... shaping and posture) is irrelevant to falling over, ... the moving leg, ...
    (rec.arts.dance)