Re: Theories of lead and follow

"Ron N." <rhnlogic@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1147076945.113440.68560@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<snip>
I have reversed the order of Deborah's following quote to make a point:

followers should not "think." They should only follow.

I agree with this, given that she probably means conscious thinking.

that a good follower will _never_ predict the leader's next move. That's
"thinking," and

I will disagree with this. Not all the predictions that humans do
are perceived as thinking.

Probably true. And may or may not have something to do with dance.

My guess is that a lot of what a follower does when "just following" has
the brain heavily involved in predictive activity

If we stack your guess against their certainty, you're not left with
anything solid re support for your theory.

Whenever just walking, the human brain is predicting which way
we would fall about a half second into the future, and adjusting
each step (again slightly ahead of time due to reaction delay) to
maintain balance.

You say this with such certainty, that I must ask if you have any actual
proof or is this another opinion dressed as a fact looking like it might be
a truth? Here's a hint: when you use numbers, be certainto use credible
numbers. Half a second! Poppy***!!

Whenever we walk in a crowd, a normal brain
is also predicting where others around us will be more than one
step into the future, which is how people adjust spacing so as
not to collide.

Having actually experienced -- and been aware -- of this _learned_ and
_practiced_ ability, I agree. However, it's hardly so unconscious as to be
unaware given that people can become instantly aware they are doing it
simply by thinking about it. It's an activity that lies on the edge of
subconscious and conscious, a habit if you will.

I'll also add that a core skill of "scrambling" (running or fast walking up
and over and down rocky terrain, especially mountain tops) is reading the
surface for where to put your feet,which rock provides the best grip, which
surface has the best hold (especially in wet weather). Having spent my teen
years practicing this skill competitively, I was very good at it, and I
still do it when walking in the bush.

This can all be done unconsciously, while maybe
having a conversation with someone walking with you, and having
no idea of how many steps you took, let alone how each step
helped keep you away from colliding with others. No one has
to think about these predictions.

So, people can chew gum and play the guitar at the same time! Heck, I have a
teenager weo can watch TV, listen to musicyer, hold up to 10 MSN
conversations, surf the Net, and do his homework at the same time. AFAIK,
he's conscious of it all. :-)

You are taking a perfectly ordinary activity -- which isn't 'natural' btw --
which we can be conscious of simply by thinking about what we're doing, and
spinning it into support for your theory of an unknown, unconscious, unaware
of, 'natural' predictive following.

I think you have fallen into the trap that comes with innovative and
creative thinking, that of seeing most observations as supporting the
innovative thinking. For example, the follower you described might just have
been sore. No body predicting at all, just a sore arm that became less sore
as the evening progressed. You seem to want your theory to be tru so much
that when presented with clear evidence that supports the traditional theory
you claim that people are simply unaware that they are doing it your way.
Whenasked to provide evidence insupport of your theory you talk about the
human ability to fill in words ina noisy room, walking in crowds (much
closer to dancing btw).

FWIW, take you walking through a crowd example, but this time have the
perosn be blindfolded and 'led' by another, a sighted person. Or not
blindfolded, but still 'led' by another -- as often happens btw with a
couple holding hands, or an adult and child. Think aobut that activity and
you'll be closer to what happens on the dance floor.

You also mentioned that you felt you weren't a good lead. Can I respectfully
suggest that you consider simply relaxing into the lead and not thinking
about it so much? Just as "followers don't think, just follow" there is a
place for leaders to not think, just lead.
HTH


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