Re: CA Vote: My Two Cents

"Paul-Andre Panon" <ppanon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:MNKcf.481120$1i.192753@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Bob Wheatley wrote:
>
>> "Paul-Andre Panon" <ppanon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:fgBcf.482925$tl2.55680@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>Bob Wheatley wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Peter D" <please@.sk> wrote in message
>>>>news:ldtcf.475740$tl2.473883@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>>Nope. My belief is that when you pay for the best, you get the best. If
>>>>>that's too hard to grasp, maybe you really don't understand
>>>>>"Capitialism 101" as much as you think you do.
>>>>
>>>>Bullcrap.
>>>>Paying the most money is no guarantee of anything other than you paid
>>>>the most money.
>>>>Competition is the only way to ensure that you get your dollars worth.
>>>>Or loon as it were.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob Wheatley
>>>
>>>And Pete's point is that there is cross competition with private
>>>industry, just not with private schools. A very high proportion of new
>>>teachers leave teaching to "pursue other opportunities" after a few
>>>years. Perhaps some of them found teaching wasn't what they expected, and
>>>maybe some of them just found a better offer. Good teachers have a fair
>>>amount of intelligence, a reasonable understanding of human psychology,
>>>and good organizational and presentation skills. If you don't think those
>>>skills are in demand in industry, for greater remuneration, or equal or
>>>shorter hours, I question your knowledge of "Capitalism 101".
>>>
>>
>>
>> As I question yours......
>>
>>
>>
>>>Those skills are in demand outside the school system and if you're not
>>>willing to pay for them, someone else is and you'll be left with the
>>>crappy teachers. While money isn't a good motivator, a perceived lack of
>>>appreciation from poor remuneration is a strong de-motivator.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, now you've argued both sides of the fence.
>> Money is either a motivator or it's not.
> As often happens, your apparent black and white vision misses subtleties.
> Re-read that last sentence of mine and you'll find it's not the same as
> how you re-interpreted it. I clearly said that money is not a motivator,
> but that a perceived lack of it is a de-motivator. These two things *are
> not the same*. Perhaps you just don't agree with it because it clashes
> with your agenda?
>

No P-A.
There's need for me to "re-interpret" anything.
It's just plain silly to say that money is NOT a motivator, and that lack of
money is a de-motivator, and to side with Peter for wanting to throw more
money at teachers to "get the best".

>> My point is that if teachers were paid by results and the best teachers
>> were paid the best (insert your own dollar figure), that's called
>> "Capitalism 101".
>>
> I'm OK with merit based pay. The problem is that properly evaluating
> teachers is very subjective and time consuming and nobody is willing to
> take the time and money required to properly do so. If you try to use
> standardized tests on core materials, teachers just drill the test
> material instead of teaching. You get rote memorization instead of
> understanding. For some material that's OK (basic arithmetic, spelling,
> conjugation), for others it's not (or we wouldn't have idiots "redefining"
> science in Kansas).
>


I think if we gave good old American ingenuity a shot at it through
Capitalism you would be surprised at the outcome.
Heck, I betcha we could even come up with some meaningful tests that
actually evaluate learned material.


Bob Wheatley


.

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