Re: Creativity vs. Control


"Mike Corbett" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:l210m1tdgv2t9inh3c3c6qufsp1m929e84@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:06:24 GMT, "Larry Gantman"
> <payopts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mike Corbett" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >news:iksvl15fmncq627qaibpoq041h3tdauhnu@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:47:55 GMT, "Larry Gantman"
> >> <payopts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
>
> >> >> >> Now here's a question for you to ponder. When dancing at a high
> >level
> >> >> >> with your controlling leader for example, if the follower IS
injured
> >> >> >> half way through the dance in an attempt to highjack etc. who do
you
> >> >> >> blame? :-)
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Accidents happen, yet you're not speaking of an accident.
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, yes I am. The controlling leader is not controlling by accident
> >> >> and the follower is not hijacking by accident but the injury would
> >> >> definitely be accidental.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps, yet the cause would not be accidental, it would be
facilitated
> >by
> >> >the one factor you placed into your scenario--a controlling leader.
Had
> >you
> >> >introduced other factors, the reply would have taken them into
> >> >consideration.
> >>
> >> I think if you read more carefully you'll find the second and third
> >> factors, namely "when dancing at a high level" and "in an attempt to
> >> highjack". :-)
> >>
> >> No?
> >>
> >
> >Your comment "when dancing at a high level" led me to believe that the
> >competent leader would be more attuned to--and more effective
at--insuring
> >the safety of his partner while dnncing. Your comment "in an attempt to
> >hijack" simply defined a common practice among certain followers that
> >high-level, competitive leaders have come to expect may happen. As such,
> >wouldn't it be something that a leader at this level would be more adept
at
> >handling safely?
>
> Ok. There are four factors in question one. They work together,
> progressively.
>
> 1. Your controlling leader (the over controlling leader YOU
> described)
>
> 2. Dancing at a high level (both partners are highly skilled)
>
> 3. Halfway through the dance. (meaning she already knows he's
> controlling her and is taking a big risk to try hijacking)
>
> 4. attempts to hijack anyway and is injured.
>
>
> It is all there in the original question. Care to try again?
>
> Bill and Jane are divorced.
>
> Is it Jane's fault because she could have refused Bill's proposal?
>
> Is it Bill's fault because he proposed?
>
> Is it her fault because she cheated on Bill with Joe?
>
> The point is you cannot appropriately assess blame simply by choosing
> to go back to some point at which the problem could have been avoided
> by one party or another.
>
> With that logic, it's the followers parent's fault for choosing to
> have sex with each other. (She's older) Or, if you're a radical
> feminist, it's the fault of Jane's father for raping her mother. :-)
>
> On the other hand you COULD assess blame by blaming the person who
> made the mistake closest in time to the result. Often you would be
> just as wrong. In the dance example, IMO, both partners contributed
> to the accident regardless of the sequence of contributing factors.
> YMMV
> >
>
>



Did the leader appropriately take into accountability his responsibility for
the safety of his follower? Did he dance in a way that jeopardized his
follower's safety as she attempted to express her natural tendency to dance
instead of succumbing to his desire to shut her down? Don't some followers
resent being shut down so much that they'll jump at the first opportunity to
breathe some air? Isn't this because of the leader's controlling nature?
Isn't it this controlling impulse that caused the restrictive environment
that led to your "accident" in the middle of the dance? In fact, wasn't the
leader's controlling influence the cause of the follower's "errant" attempt
at maintaining her dignity on the dance floor in front of high-level judges
and her peers? Wasn't the leader, in fact, the cause of the "accident?"
And remember that you introduced the terms "errant" and "off time" in a
subsequent post.

You seem to be defining the follower's hijack attempt as "errant" because,
how dare she attempt to maintain her sanity by attempting to dance instead
of sweetly abiding by the leader's potentially smothering dictates.
According to you, she should have known that doing so might result in
injury. This seems like a biased opinion to me. While you seem to suggest
that she could have done more to protect her safety by not attempting to add
something of herself to the dance, I would suggest a more likely scenario,
which is that she evidently believed she had finally found an opening to
safely inject something of herself into the dance, only to have the
resenting leader, who believed he had to stop her misguided ways, overpower
her, thereby causing the injury. I also don't buy your "off-time"
suggestion for a moment. People always dance off-time to some degree and
their partners adjust without a resultant injury. Higher level dancers
adjust to a greater degree than lower level dancers. You seem to believe
that because some higher level dancers exercise more complex moves that they
are more prone to injury. I would suggest that the better leaders practice
these moves extensively before putting them on the dance floor, particularly
so that they can anticipate their followers' reactions and adjust
accordingly.

Take that, you cad! :^)

Larry Gantman


.

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