Re: Creativity vs. Control


"Bob Wheatley" <xmaster.dancer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:11lvkb1366vtkcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Larry Gantman" <payopts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:E1Q7f.8006$tl5.19@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > "Bob Wheatley" <xmaster.dancer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:11lvie4mntb0d76@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> "Larry Gantman" <payopts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:gAP7f.7391$Yn4.1823@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> > "Bob Wheatley" <xmaster.dancer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> > news:11lvdth7auemq2e@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> "Larry Gantman" <payopts@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:DkC7f.25115$i31.13988@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Bob Wheatley" <xmaster.dancer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> >> Your question is a bit tricky because "who wins" or "who loses"
> >> >> >> depends
> >> >> >> on
> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> whole bunch of factors.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, that's why I'm focusing on the effect of leaders who are
> >> >> > more
> >> > apt
> >> >> > to control exactly what their partners do during every step of a
WCS
> >> >> > JnJ
> >> >> > competition, as compared with leaders who create an environment on
> > the
> >> >> > dance
> >> >> > floor where both partners can be creative and expressive in
relation
> > to
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > music. I'm also referring to situations in which followers are
> >> > competent
> >> >> > and more expressive when dancing with partners other than Dancer
"A"
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > Dancer "B." In other words, it's observable to judges that both
> >> >> > leaders
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > controlling their followers so that their precise plan can be
> > effected
> >> > and
> >> >> > that it negatively affects their partners' creativity on the dance
> >> > floor.
> >> >> > Granted that both leaders have positive characteristics to their
> >> > dancing;
> >> >> > for example, good timing and preparation for musical breaks. Yet
> > they
> >> > do
> >> >> > not facilitate synergistic performance to music. Instead, they
> > produce
> >> >> > repetitive patterns, which they have become more or less adept at
> >> > imposing
> >> >> > on their partners, without providing "play time" for their
partners
> > to
> >> >> > improvise or add to the performance.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> There are few absolutes in dancing. Most things that are deemed
> >> >> "appropriate" are only done so in increments or degrees.
> >> >> And then by varying amounts depending on which judge you ask.
> >> >> What you call "control" some may see as "lead".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Okay. Yet examples were provided of situations in which it was
evident
> >> > that
> >> > the leaders were overdirecting everything and the followers were
going
> >> > along
> >> > for the ride. So I'm curious if some judges prefer this kind of
> >> > dancing
> >> > to
> >> > having both capable partners fully express themselves to the music.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sorry. I didn't see where there was an "evident" example.
> >> My "interpretation" was the example offended _you_.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your candor. If I'm offended, it's that the possibility
exists
> > that judges appreciate a dance where the follower is "contained " more
> > than
> > a dance where each capable dancer contributes to a partnership with each
> > other and the music through individual expression of talent and musical
> > interpretation. In a WCS JnJ, the leader can create or inhibit the
> > necessary environment.
> >
> >
>
>
> Sure. But those are only a couple of issues being measured.
> A couple can have the worst choreography and still win.
> A couple can have the worst turn technique and still win.
> A couple can have the worst performance characteristics and still win.
> A couple can have the worst......Well, you get the idea.
> There are few items on the long list of dance fundamentals where if you
are
> the worst you get automatic last. A couple of possible exceptions might be
> timing and footwork. But even that can vary judge to judge.
>
> Every judge brings their own set of experiences, knowledge, and skills to
> the table. They then have to prioritize those abilities according to their
> own sensibilities and those of the contest coordinator. (Head judge)
> I might have "dance character" as my #1 priority.
> However, if my contest coordinator instructs me to filter my observations
> through the #1 priority of "teamwork" then I would do so.
>
>


Thanks again, that's valuable information for a competitor to know.



> >
> >> Without actually seeing it, I don't know what _I_ would have thought of
> > the
> >> situation. But if it's a situation where the leader is "forcing" and
> >> "controlling" in lieu of "leading" then it should be obvious that most
> >> qualified judges will not look upon that kindly.
> >> (Unhand that vixen...you varmint!> :>))
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Agreed. Could it be that some leaders have so much talent that this
> > aspect
> > is ignored?
> >
>
>
> I wouldn't say it's "ignored".
> I would say that his "talent" elevates his overall dancing and thusly his
> overall placement.
>
>



That makes sens, thanks for your insight.

Larry Gantman


.

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