Re: Candorville 8-30-2005


Darrin Bell wrote:

[Lots of good, intelligent reply snipped]

>
> Not to be flippant, but that's your (the general "you," not the Blinky
> you) problem. I'm sure somebody out in that audience in '99, who saw me
> walk across the stage to get my diploma, thought I only made it because
> they had to fill a quota. I knew I had a high GPA, I knew I deserved
> it, I knew people admitted under affirmative action washed out just
> like anyone else if they didn't perform once they were there -- and
> that's all that really mattered. If a minority knows she/he deserves to
> be where they are, that's all that should matter. I'm not going to lose
> any sleep over the notion that some people out there falsely assume
> minorities don't deserve what they've earned -- just because somewhere
> along the line someone held a door open for them so they could go in
> and prove themselves. The point is they proved themselves, and their
> lives are better for it. We'll gladly accept our stigmatized diplomas
> and cash our stigmatized paychecks, because that's better than the
> alternative.
>
> This is what I see as the choice, and I know other people can frame it
> differently: We can procede on principle and say it's every man for
> himself, with no help from government programs, and watch as the cycle
> of ignorance and poverty repeats for another several generations. Or we
> can procede pragmatically, and continue with a program that's resulted
> in better lives and a sense of hope for young people who might
> otherwise decide to mug you or me. I think the latter choice makes more
> sense.
> Outreach programs are a long term solution, but only if they're
> maintained for a few generations. They didn't even last (with adequate
> funding) a few years. The public just isn't as committed to them as we
> need to be for them to work. Until we get that right, we need
> affirmative action.

But how to convice the public? It's hard to convince someone that
someone else deserves special treatment when you think you are getting
jobbed by the system.

> "Affirmative action recepients have to be "Super Black/Latino/Woman" to
>
> overcome those perceptions. That is not fair on so many levels..."
>
> What else is new? Haven't minorities have always had to be "Super
> Black/Latino/Woman" just to get equal respect anyway, even when
> affirmative action isn't a factor? It's an unfortunate reality. That
> said, affirmative action doesn't materially exacerbate that situation.
> If anything, it counters it by lowering that already-raised bar (where,
> again, once in, the minority student or employee has to sink or swim
> like anybody else).
>
> Besides, there's always someone at the office who thinks other people
> are getting special treatment -- who thinks other people don't belong
> in his league, or who blames his own lack of advancement on other
> people. That guy's always going to come up with some reason to validate
> that assumption. Affirmative Action is just one of the excuses. Get rid
> of it and another one will come right along to take its place.
> Placating people who like to make hasty assumptions, IMO, is not a good
> reason to get rid of a program that's led to a better standard of
> living for minorities.

I like to think of set-asides in terms of the "handicapped parking
fallacy": Someone is driving around the shopping mall and grumbles
about all the open handicap spots. "Gee, if that stop was reserved for
the handicapped, I wouldn't have to park so far from the mall entrance"
the driver thinks. Of course this is a fallacy, as if the spot wasn't
reserved, it would already be occupied and not even noticed by the
driver. Affirmative action is like the handicapped spot-- it is set
aside for those with special needs and is more noticeable to those
without those needs, especially when the resource is in short supply.
If the parking lot is half-empty, there is little or no resentment
about the handicapped spot. Likewise, seeing someone abuse the set
aside ("Hey, that guy getting out of the car in the handicapped spot
looks OK to me! What a cheating %&$&^%!") angers those who felt left
out and feel others are gaming the system, whether or not are really
cheating or not.

Trying to extend this analogy (and probably stretching the point),
there is resentment, for example, from some who do not get into schools
of their choice while others get in through affirmative action. These
people fall for the handicapped parking fallacy, believing "If it
wasn't for that set-aside, I'd have gotten in instead."

So what? People accepting this fallacy undermines support for
affirmative action programs. Reports of abuse of the programs (like the
physically capable guy taking the handicapped spot) reinforces these
perceptions and further erodes support. Unfortunately, in politics and
public policy decisions, perceptions are often reality.

For this reason, I am strong advocate of early intervention in our
education system-- even the playing field as soon as possible by
providing the best oppurtunities in and out of the classroom,
increasing the numbers of minorities that can get in the same front
door as whites, decrasing the need for set-asides and therefore
improving public support for these programs.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Candorville 8-30-2005
    ... and if these outreach programs were ubiquitous and well-funded ... we wouldn't need affirmative action at the other ... end because minorities wouldn't be underrepresented at universities. ... a strong support system, is a disservice to the student, the college ...
    (rec.arts.comics.strips)
  • Re: ! U.S. Tennis Association reaches settlement on diversity hiring
    ... Affirmative action denies jobs to the most qualified. ... percentage of women and minorities, ... to a company, then sets flexible goals, to be reached in good faith. ...
    (rec.sport.tennis)
  • Re: We didnt start the fire? was Re: Alignment and 4E
    ... disagreeing the merits of Affirmative Action. ... Whether Hadsil is right or wrong in the disagreement, ... I think affirmative action would have been thrown out years ago ... affirmative action is failing minorities in that it's teaching many ...
    (rec.games.frp.dnd)
  • Re: Kam Schools court ruling
    ... >>> affirmative action, because IIRC I believe it's been ... > IIRC Berkeley took the best of the minorities. ... Place all applicants in a common pool and those minorities get ... So Kam Schools placed the Hawaiians/part Hawaiians in a group separate ...
    (soc.culture.hawaii)