Re: Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
- From: Tony <TonyJ1675@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:40:05 -0700
On Jun 22, 9:01?pm, Billy Bissette <bai...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
racerx...@xxxxxxxxx wrote in news:1182544846.197680.283420
@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Storm is the closest thing Marvel has to an Iconic Superhero that is
a woman. You have to be powerful, attractive, LEAD other heroes, have
an interesting personal life AND most importantly be at the center of
significant stories in the Marvel Universe. That's pretty general
criteria and yet it excludes 90% of the people on your list.
I'd argue those criteria also exclude Wonder Woman, who was the one
female character that is truly accepted as iconic.
--exclude her?
Umm, she's quite powerful, she is attractive, she *has* lead the JLA
and has been a big player in the DCU.
I wouldn't argue for an interesting personal life as part of being an
icon. Heck, Diana *doesn't* have an interesting personal life, and
despite her history with Steve Trevor, never really has. So I don't
think that's a necessary aspect of a successful female icon (which is
why Storm's lack of a successful love life plays no bearing either).
Wonder Woman isn't exactly known for leading other heroes, in my
opinion. She's been part of the big groups. She's even been a big
decision maker in the JLA, but that has itself increasing been because
she *is* considered iconic.
It takes the general populance to really make a character iconic, and
Wonder Woman reached that status long ago. The Linda Carter TV show
certainly helped. Being in the old DC cartoons also helped (and being
the token heroine back then made her stand out a bit more and probably
helped her become iconic.)
--that was quite significant. But on it's own, not enough. If it
was, the Invisible Woman would be an icon.
The truly iconic characters are the ones that are recognized outside
of comic books, and not just because they've been in a recent movie
release. It seems everyone knows Batman and Superman, even people that
have never read a comic have seen them on TV (across the decades in
the case of Superman), in theaters, in newspaper strips, in popular
culture references, in everything... Spider-Man, the Incredible Hulk,
and Wonder Woman as well, though some might be to lesser degrees than
others. Guys like Captain America are iconic, though you are probably
drifting into a lower recognition area. Fantastic Four as well.
Wolverine. And various others.
--Longevity of the character, as well as exposure within their
universe and in the real world, are all factors that help a character
gain iconicity (yeah, I know...). I'd say with the advent of the 3
successful Spiderman movies, that he has become a cultural icon. Sure
he has been around consistently since the 60s and he's had several
cartoon shows, but the movies reached a wider audience and cemented
his standing as a pop culture icon. The Hulk is an icon too, but to a
much lesser extent, IMHO. He had his own tv show, but I don't think
that helped much, as it was too far afield of the comics
version...though it did at least place the character in a spotlight,
making non comics readers aware of him. He's also appeared in several
cartoons, and in a movie. There are licensing deals with him as well,
which help keep him in the public eye. He could potentially achieve
major icon status, but he'd need to be at the forefront of the MU (and
becoming a member of the Avengers, despite how hard it would be to
have him there, is one way of doing that), and he needs a string of
successful movies.
Using Superman, Spiderman or the Hulk as an example of being an icon,
and one sees why no female character aside from Wonder Woman is there
yet.
You do get a more comic book specific "iconic," for guys like
Silver Surfer (who has inexplicably gotten the occassional nod
of recognition outside comics.)
The truth is that Storm was an amazing character for years and yet she
was just about the ONLY female character in all of Marvel comics to
have only ONE major love story given how popular she was. Storm had
been around for almost 30 years and the only relationship she'd ever
had was with Forge. When you consider Jean Grey, Rogue and other High
profile heros Storm's personal life was blank. Marrying Black Panther
was about SAVING a character that hadn't been in use since the early
1990's.
I'd say Storm's romantic history had nothing to do with her potential
iconic status.
What she lacked was a popular 1970s live-action TV show, or even a
recurring role on something like The Electric Co. Marvel was also late
to the popular cartoon game, missing the era of Superfriends. When
Storm did make it to cartoons, she was always a minor character in a
team series. She was always second or third-fiddle at best, no matter
whether she was a college of Xavier or starring in a special "Storm-
specific" episode.
--that's a big problem for Ororo. Despite being popular, she's played
second fiddle to the rest of the X-Men. She needs some long term
exposure on her own.
Even in the popular movies, she hasn't even been the most important
female, falling into Jean's shadow. When Halle Berry complained, they
tried to make her more important, but it just never truly clicked.
(And being played by Halle Berry is a double-edged sword itself.)
As for romantic history in general... How many relationships has
Superman had? Most people would only think of Lois, though Smallville
has reminded (or informed people) of Lana. Batman has had a fair
share, but outside of comics readers, how many can name one? And if
they name one, have that one not be Catwoman? The movies might give
them ideas, but they'd probably say something like "Kim Basinger"
rather than a character name like "Vicky Vale." And the women are
mostly disposable cardboard cut-outs in the movies anyway.
How interesting are Superman and Batman's personal lives anyway?
They are known for their superhero identities. Outside that, you've
got "pretends to be mild mannered newspaper reporter" and "pretends
to be playboy millionaire." Oh, and tragic origins based in their
childhood. Even in their superhero lives, they arguably have more
professional team-ups than friends.
Spider-Man has had a few relationships, but how many known any
other than Mary Jane? And again, from a general populace perspective,
he's not got that interesting a life. He's teamed up with and met
a lot of people, but is well known for other reasons.
--having a romantic life doesn't make one an icon.
I will say it adds layers to a character though.
Tony
.
- References:
- Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
- From: badthingus
- Re: Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
- From: racerx139
- Re: Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
- From: Billy Bissette
- Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
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