Re: Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
- From: Tony <TonyJ1675@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:01:45 -0700
On Jun 22, 11:20?am, badthin...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
This came out of a discussion on the DC as to why Wonder Woman had
prominence on the cover of a book that as presumably more about Black
Canary. The answer is simple: WW is an icon, BC is not.
--I agree.
Even still, the cover (I'm assuming it's the ridiculous bachelorette
cover) *should* still focus on Dinah, not Diana.
In fact, WW
is the *only* female icon in comics. Not one other could be named by
the average person in the street, barring obvious "male based"
characters (Supergirl, Batgirl, etc). But could there be others.
--one possible reason why there are no other female icons is that many
simply haven't had enough time to shine in popular consciousness.
Wonder Woman has been around since 1940, and has been almost (if not
completely) continuously published in one form or another since her
inception. She had her own television series, and was featured in
every incarnation of the animated Justice League (be it Super Friends
or Justice League/Unlimited). She's ingrained in the popular
consciousness of the average guy/girl on the street. Until another
female gets that kind of coverage there won't likely *be* another
female comic book icon (and yes, I do realize there are other factors
at play; just putting out a television series about Witchblade doesn't
automatically mean she's going to attain iconic status).
And
specifically, could there be an A-list Marvel female superhero? If
so, who?
Ms. Marvel: She was suggested by the other poster, but to me, she's
forever a C-lister mainly because of her derirvative name and powers.
--I think the biggest problem is her name. Her powers aren't really
that derivative of Mar-Vell's. But her name forever brands her as
part of the 70s, in a way that doesn't really match her personality.
Contrast Carol's personality with Power Girl's, and you'll see what I
mean. Both were made as representatives of feminism, but Kara's
attitude *still* showcases the stereotypical image of a feminist from
time to time (I'm not trying to start a discussion about feminism;
merely noting the creation of the characters, and how one has diverged
and the other hasn't).
Despite the fact that Carol isn't a symbol of feminism the way she
originally was, she's kept the name "Ms. Marvel". It's a symbol of
feminism, as well as being derivative. I wasn't the biggest fan of
"Warbird", but at least it was a step in the right direction. If her
personality was going to move beyond being a feminist, then so should
her name.
Also, while I don't personally have a problem with Carol still being
concerned with feminist issues (in fact, that would help set her apart
from many other comic book heroines and I'd personally like it), I'm
afraid having her personality revert to match her name wouldn't go
over well with readers, and would have the opposite effect of making
her an A lister. I could be wrong though.
And as I said above, Carol hasn't had much (if any) exposure outside
of comics. She hasn't had the chance to reach the masses.
Until many factors change, for all that I'd love Carol Danvers, she's
not going to become the preeminent Marvel female and certainly not a
female comic book icon.
Even Claremont couldn't make her work and he's pretty good with female
characters. God forbid Captain Carol Danvers just become the new
Captain Marvel. If there are no others, why is the Ms needed any
more. And a successor is much better than a counterpart.
--I think she needs an identity that's stand alone. Not derivative,
nor one previously used by a male. But at the same time it needs to
be a name that's got punch. Warbird was apt, in that it reflected her
Air Force background, but it lacked the right "oomph".
Spiderwoman: Also suggested by the other poster which makes me wonder
if it were just Bendis under another name (but since he communicated
an idea quickly and came to a conclusion it couldn't possibly be).
She also suffers from being a male knockoff, but other than a name and
wall-crawling, Jessica Drew has nothing to do with Peter Parker. Her
character stumbled at first, but Claremont made her into a strong,
smart, capable hero and then gave her Viper as a mother which I
thought was inspired. Unfortunately, his departure sent her back into
the junk pile. Gone was the Viper connection and soon she was
literally dead. She came back (though no one seems to know how), but
neither Claremont's strong superhero or even strong privated detective
has returned. He claims to love her, but to me he's made her a
stupid, weak mess---complete with fake boobs, which he seems to think
is hysterical.
--Spiderwoman also suffers from the same problems Ms Marvel does. In
addition to those listed above, both characters have suffered from
being out of the comic book limelight until fairly recently. Jessica
Drew made her major league return in the pages of New Avengers (and
yes, I'm aware she made a few appearances in several Spider-Man comics
in the 90s, as well as Alias; but she wasn't a head liner, often
didn't have her powers, and was sans her costume many times during
that period). The same with Carol. She appeared sporadically between
the time she became Binary until Kurt Busiek used her in Avengers.
They have to have the chance to shine before anyone could consider
them for iconic status.
She-Hulk: Again with the knock-offs! It was an inspired decision to
not take her seriously for the most part because before that, her book
was remarkably dull. But now *the* Hulk scribe, Peter David, is
taking over and he plans on going straight superhero. I remain put
off by the fact she's another knock-off, but Peter David has a way
with big green people, so this may be her time.
--unless she gets some crossover promotion (i.e. a movie, licensing
deals, appearances on lunch boxes, etc), I don't see her being any
kind of icon. And because of her derivative name, I don't see her
*ever* becoming an icon (in addition, the humorous aspect of her
character as detailed under Byrne and Slott have come to define her
character in a way that I don't think she'll ever get past).
Phoenix: Now this is my choice. Not a knock off and pretty much an
original member of the Marvel Universe. Also, one of the most
powerful people in the MU, much less the most powerful woman. Jean
Grey needs to come back and go solo (yeah, she's married to Cyclops,
but we know how Quesada feels about marriage).
--She definitely has elements of iconic status, not the least of which
is having been around for *some* time. However, the longer she's out
of the spotlight, the more her chances of becoming an icon lessen.
Also of note is that even though she's been around for a long time, it
wasn't until the Phoenix Saga that anything significant was done with
her character, and then she was gone for nearly a decade. She
suffers--to a lesser extent--from the lack of exposure or time out of
the limelight that Carol and Jessica suffer from. Unlike them, she
also suffers from never having her own book. She's always been part
of an X-team and hasn't had the chance to shine solo. That hurts her
chances as well.
Scarlet Witch: Another mega powerful babe with oodles of MU history.
She's back and there's no reason she also can't make a go as solo
heroine. If Wolverine can slaughter hundreds of SHIELD agensts and
dozens of Z-list heroes and maintain his standing, there's no reason
Wanda can't come back.
--for most of the reasons I've already detailed, plus more, I honestly
don't see Wanda *ever* becoming iconic.
And I *like* her.
The Black Widow: Former Soviet secret agent has potential and I
actually loved those very dark, out-of-continuity mini-sereies, but I
just don't see her as A-list and Brubaker continues the flaw of
defining her by who she's sleeping with.
--I don't think he's defining her that way at all. In fact, it speaks
to her attempts to break free of the conditioning she was under for so
many years. The fact that she had sex with Bucky is incidental.
What's important is that was *her* choice that she made and --from
what little we know-- she wasn't manipulated into it.
But I agree, she just isn't A-list material.
The Wasp: not seeing it. Even at her best she was never impressive.
--not having a distinct costume (despite the flaw that is having Jan
in the same costume for more than one adventure, as we've seen since
the days of Austen on the Avengers) is one of the {many} things that
hurts Jan.
Elektra: The closest thing to a non-derivative recogonizable solo
female Marvel has. Possible anti-hero potential.
--Given her ninja status, I'm not sure she has the right crossover
appeal needed to acheive icon status.
But if the TMNT can work, maybe she can (and that sexy red leather
helps in some circles).
Valkyrie: How is it she's never been brought back? I think a lot
could be done with her. Though there's a danger of making a female
Thor, she has a great mythological foundation to play with.
--she has been back, though it's been a few years. She was a member
of the Defenders under Busiek and Larsen.
I think her name, like Carol's lacks the right punch to make her even
a potential candidate.
Storm: Sadly saddled with being married to The Black Panther for no
other reason than they're both black superheroes. Also recognizable
thanks to the movie (you see black woman, white hair, who else is
there). To make her work, I think you'd need to play up her rough &
tumble side as a thief because being "too good" is a burden that still
hampers Superman. But she does kill people, so she ain't that pure.
--Storm is one of the few characters at Marvel that has the potential.
She's been around a long time (though she doesn't hold a candle to
Wonder Woman), doesn't have a derivative name, has a name that's
appropriate to her character and *does* have impact, has appeared
outside the comics and is thus more recognizable to the average joe on
the street, and is reasonably powerful.
One of the things that hurts her though, is that she's not gotten any
solo time. She needs a chance to shine on her own, and not in the
shadow of the X-Men, Fantastic Four, or the Black Panther.
So, anyone else come to mind?
--not really, but great topic.
Tony
.
- References:
- Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
- From: badthingus
- Can There Be An A-List Marvel Female Superhero?
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