Re: Sue turning against Reed --

<doomwad.bfg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1151020884.517553.238370@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

With respect to your position, I appreciate your evidence, and the time
involved in sumarizing your position,

Fret not, 90% of it was pasted from another posting. =)

but I must admit I am still not
convinced. Big deal! Reasonable minds can disagree, so even
you and I are allowed to have our own opinion.

Absolutely. I've never had a problem with agreeing to disagree. You'll note
that most heated exchanges on this subject begin when someone not unlike
yourself jumps in to challenge an opinion *I* have issued (or make fun of
it).

You will seldom see me jump in to challenge someone else's opinion. If I do,
it will at the very least acknowledge their right to it.

For the sake of conversation,
here's why I'm still not convinced:

The pro-SRA side is the side that actually represents change.

Granted.

The
con-SRA side represents the status quo. Presumably, things have been
groovy for quite some time. Thus, the con-SRA side doesn't really have
to say much to argue their case, other than "we like things they way
they are, thanks." Cap catches some bad guys. Ok, he did that before,
what's new?

Someone else on this board stated that those villains were sent by the
Government to apprehend rogue heroes. While I've yet to come across any
evidence of this being the case, if it's true, it's a hell of a new twist in
the good vs evil fight, isn't it? And does nothing to portray the SRA side
as knowing what they're doing.

For Christ's sake... last I saw Grim Reaper, he'd become a real-life zombie
who needed to consume life to live. Not exactly the kind of guy to send to
the drug store to pick up something for you.

Also, Spider-man is often viewed as the everyman's superhero, and he's
chosen the pro-SRA side in a big way (CW#2, last 2 pages).

Except that you're closing your eyes to one of my main points :

Spider-Man being on the pro-SRA side doesn't count because : "Marvel has
gone out of its way on several occasions to stress the fact that he's only
on that side to repay a debt of grattitude to Tony Stark. All the
sollicitations mentioning "What will happen when that loyalty is tested?"
make it clear Spidey is joining Cap's side as soon as he regains his
senses."

Pym and Reed are often considered some of the smartest individuals in
Marveldom, and they choose the pro-SRA side.

Again, I refer you back to points already made :

#5. When Anti-SRA Sue Storm tells her Pro-SRA husband Reed that she is off
to check on Johnny in the hospital, reed callously waves her off, preferring
to keep working on Stark's latest project rather than visit the lad.

Whatever Pym and Reed were considered before, Reed is being villified by the
scripting of Civil War, simply for being on the SIDE BEING VILLIFIED.

Senators being idiots? Not new. Aren't they almost always portrayed
that way?

Even back when Henry Gyrich was putting the Avengers through hell, there was
his fat sidekick Sidkjlkwkowski who was the yang to his ying, and was very
sympathetic and likable. There was also Duane Freeman, the Government
liaison to the Avengers during Busiek's run, who was a sympathetic character
as well.

Now that the Government actually has a GOOD REASON to go after the heroes,
and they can give us some Government reps who AREN'T jackoffs and actually
put words in their mouthes that make sense and ring true for once, not a
single sympathetic or charismatic soul in their camp is to be found.

You've got a point with Tony/Titanium Man. Its early in the story, but
if additional reasons aren't presented, this obviously doesn't look
good. I do not see, at this time, a parallel "bad act" on the con-SRA
side (unless you consider the New Warriors handling of Nitro). However,
Tony is seen wrestling with his conscience to do the right thing.

I will grant you that point in return. But there's a reason why all the
online reviews you'll read of CW#2 (including Newsarama's) go out of their
way to mention how this comment of Stark's sticks out like a sore thumb
because it has been the ONLY time throughout the entire Road to Civil War as
well as the event-proper that anyone on the SRA side has shown any likable
or endearing qualities.

What will be interesting to see if what happens once Spider-Man does
switch sides. What makes him switch? Maybe that will be enough of a
reason to say the pro-SRA is "bad," but I'm not there yet.

My guess before all of this even started is that he'll find out his mentor
is a lot more corrupt than he thought, and confront him -- leading to a
direct physical confrontation.

I notice you've refrained from addressing the point in Iron Man #9 where
Tony Stark is caught red-handed going on a murderous rampage -- and is
referred to by Nick Fury (who, like Cap, is never wrong) as now officially a
Bad Guy.

Even if you want to argue that the Iron Man book is following a different
timeline (as I suspect it might be), they're not doing all this shady stuff
with him everywhere to portray him as a hero in the end... they're setting
Iron Man up for something very, very dark, here.

We're talking Dr Doom-type dark.

So, I guess we disagre that the SRA issue isn't being presented in a
balenced manner, but we both do agree that the issue has obvious
parallels to the current political environment (this, according to my
understanding, is intentional).

Okay.

Unfortunately, we both 100% agree on Bush. Too bad. I miss the old
days when it was easier to disagree about what is going on with
politics than in comics.

No offense, but I can't believe you guys re-elected him over a man who,
since his defeat, has been working tirelessly towards the greater good of
the planet, instead of disappearing into nothingness like past defeated
candidates have. I mean Jon Bon Jovi supported him. If you can't trust Jon
Bon Jovi's opinion of who to elect to lead your nation, who CAN you trust?

Have you seen An Inconvenient Truth?

TJY
--
"The press conference in ASM seems to take place in the
morning. In CW2 it's at night. There are a few other things
that don't fit in the timeline." (David)

"Did you really just complain that the angle of the sun is
not constant from one title to the next?" (TJ Yeager)


.

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