Re: House of M #5 (Possible Spoilers)


cannon wrote:
> Hand-of-Omega didst say unto the masses...
> > cannon wrote:
> > > I know that this scene, and the one in the recent issue of PULSE where
> > > Hawkeye similarly waxes homocidal, is supposed to show how this whole
> > > House of M crap has broken the heroes and made them into killers
> > > somehow... but it just doesn't really wash. I mean, it's one thing for
> > > Wolverine or the Hulk or Namor or even Captain America to kill somebody
> > > when pressed -- but Hawkeye? The guy who bawled his poor little eyes
> > > out when he accidentally offed Egghead? Egghead, I ask you! I mean,
> > > seriously!
> > >
> > > And what about Peter Parker? As far as I know, Spider-Man is one of the
> > > few superheroes who has never once taken a life (gray areas aside).
> > > After all he's been through over the years, *this* is what breaks him?
> > > He couldn't even kill Norman Osborn when he should have, but now he
> > > wants to murder Wanda and Magneto?
> >
> > I really don't see how people are just writing "this" off as if it were
> > nothing really that big...They dragged the love of his life out of the
> > grave, gave him a false life and child with her, separated him from his
> > already long-suffering wife...How the hell is he *supposed* to feel?!
> > Just shrug it off, and rise above it all?? *Maybe* if he were
> > Superman...But a large part of Spider-Man's appeal is that he *is* the
> > more normal, down-to-Earth guy that we can all identify with. And in
> > this case, I really do.
>
> Really? This sort of thing has happened to you? I'm very sorry to hear
> that.
>
Yes, I myself was once Prince of Albania. Actually, I do feel that way
every time they retcon whatever book I'm reading...^^

> In all seriousness... in the great scheme of things, looking back at
> the entirety of Spider-Man's career -- this is a blip. It's not worth
> Peter's breakdown. He's been through just as much if not worse stuff.
>
Not to sound snippy, but surely it's not up to you to decide how other
people should respond to tragedy in their lives? Do you tell someone
who just lost their life's savings or was raped "You've been thru
worse, this isn't worth getting upset over"?

As far as what he's been thru, he addressed that: "How much do I have
to go through?" Sometimes it's not the quality of crap, it's just the
quantity. EVERYone has a breaking point. Hell, Batman's got a stronger
will than Spidey, and he's tried to kill the Joker at least three times
that I know of...

> Plus, I don't believe his first response to the revelation would be
> homocidal rage/weepiness. No. Peter Parker would immediately seize upon
> the possibilities inherant in the premise: "Holy ***, you mean I can
> have the real Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy alive. And world peace? Where's
> the drawback here?"
>
Because he knows it's all fake. And he knows he can't have it. And he
knows he has to help do the *right thing* (like some here were
complaining about) to get rid of it all. And that HURTS.

> Obviously, there's the whole mind-rape thing to deal with, but the
> basic premise is that the greatest heroes of the Marvel Universe have
> been given unlimited wishes. And their first response is to kill the
> genie? These guys aren't heroes. They're a bunch of whiny ***-wipes
> who can't handle real adversity. Or else can't deal with a reality in
> which they aren't really needed -- thugs with superpowers.
>
0_0! You're not serious.^^

> HoM is headed straight for the cliched, Big Dumb Fight at the end, and
> while it isn't remotely surprising, it's still a pity.
>
It's a superhero comic. What's "wrong" with a big fight climaxing a
superhero comic book? So long as it's better done than the one in
Secret War, at least...^~

> There's a similar scene to Peter's revelation in Avengers/JLA where the
> assembled heroes, after encountering a series of mixed-up realities,
> are able to see the real worlds they once inhabited, with an emphasis
> on all the horror and pain they've all experienced over the years in
> their respective continuities. There is some hand-wringing, but in the
> end all the heroes agree to save the day and make things they way they
> were. No histrionics. Still poignent, though, particularly Wanda and
> Vision's realization about their kids.
>
IIRC, much of that story was told through the captions, not so much the
dialouge. If it had been, it would probably sound similar to what Peter
went through. Besides, that series was pretty much the opposite of
decompressed, so they didn't have a lot of space to dwell on the
characters' reactions!

> Peter Parker's response to the lie in HoM #5 is the response of an
> adolescent. "I've been hurt, I'm going to hurt those who hurt me." But
> if Peter had ever been like that, he wouldn't have captured the burgler
> who killed Uncle Ben; he would have killed him. Even in the 60s, as a
> teenager, Peter Parker was more adult than the way Fan Favorite Brian
> Michael Bendis writes him today.
>
How do you know he wasn't intending to kill him? He sure came after him
hard enough. It was only the shock of seeing who the burglar was that
snapped him out of his anger by driving home the lesson of
responsibility to him.

And others have already pointed out that Peter was shouting to the
heavens his intention to kill Norman Osborn, so this idea that he'd
"never" do that has been nixed right there.

Did he just go after Osborn like he immediately went after the crook?
That strikes me as a more immature response than talking it over with
someone. What would you have preferred to see? Peter just throwing on
his costume and crashing through Magneto's window? Cause that's what
past characterization would lead us to expect. But that'd be just
another "Big Dumb Fight" wouldn't it?^^

> > > I miss superheroes. I really do. Superheroes could always be counted
> > > upon to do the right thing in any given situation, even if it was the
> > > difficult thing. What have we got to read about now? A bunch of thugs
> > > with powers. Great.
> > >
> > We must have been reading different issues, then. My copy doesn't have
> > Peter, Hawkeye, or anyone else attempting to kill anyone.
>
> You don't have that version? It's wicked kewl! Lost of exploisons and
> swears and heads exploding too! It is teh r0XX0r!!

AWEsome!!!^^
>
> > Since when
> > does expressing one's feelings make one liable for committing actions?
> > If so, then there should be a LOT of people in jail right now who
> > aren't, including me. And, I'd wager, everyone reading this as well.
>
> Point. But that's not the way it's written. We're meant to believe
> they're serious, that these heroes have been driven past the breaking
> point and they are indeed willing to kill people. Despite this being
> wholly out of character for Spider-Man and Hawkeye.
>
Extreme situations elicit extreme responses. And it's already been
proven that it's not OOC at all, for Spidey, at least. Wait till the
series is over, we don't know that either is really going to DO it. And
again, if Peter *does* seriously try to kill someone, without stepping
back, then I'll add my voice to yours in protest...

Dex

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