Re: FINAL CRISIS #1: A Very Short Review

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:26:46 -0600, Bruce Grubb <bgrubb@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <aamg549glkppbdm4ocelvki7gfutfsvqvt@xxxxxxx>,
grinningdemon <grinningdemon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:02:34 -0600, Bruce Grubb <bgrubb@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <q4lb541q8o8465dcdr464osdpei0h8dbjn@xxxxxxx>,
grinningdemon <grinningdemon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:06:59 -0600, Bruce Grubb <bgrubb@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Back to the one universe idea. It is clear to everyone it was and is a
mistake. Unless you have total dictatorial control there is no way to
make
sure all the books in a shared universe have good continuity between each
other. Look at Marvel which has a multiverse but has marginalized it to
the point it might as well not exist. Continuity in the main universe
books is a total joke mainly because what is going on in one book cannot
be
reconciled with what is going on in another published at the same time
because they involve the same characters.

Obviously it's not clear to everyone that it was and is a mistake or
we wouldn't be having this discussion and it WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDONE BY
NOW...I do believe they royally scewed up the execution but I still
think one universe was a good idea...and I think continuity was
generally better off post-crisis than pre-crisis (it certainly wasn't
any worse)...DC's conitnuity is currently particularly messy but it
stems not from the one universe idea but from the idiotic changes they
made at the end of Infinite Crisis that were never properly explained
and probably won't be anytime soon.

"Continuity was generally better off post-crisis than pre-crisis (it
certainly wasn't any worse)"? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. Pre-Crisis
Hawkman and the LSH were nowhere near the continuity shambles they were 5
years Post-Crisis. Pre-Crisis you didn't have this 'which stories actually
"happened"' question that hung over the Post-Crisis Universe like a wet
blanket while Pre-Crisis you always had things like Earth-B and Earth-E as
dumping grounds. DC's current earth has so many freaking heroes that it is
a wonder that they don't trip over each other.

Hawkman (while one of my personal favorites), is a relatively minor
character...and the problems with his character didn't start until
several years after CoIE when Hawkworld came out.

Yes and the efforts to fit the problem just made things worse.

Yes, that's what's happened in most cases when they've tried to fix
the post-crisis continuity-blips...although I'm pretty happy with the
current incarnation of Hawkman as Geoff Johns brought him back in the
last JSA series.


The Legion is also a relatively isolated corner of the DCU and,
frankly, I think dropping Superboy from their history was an
improvement...if they'd just rebooted the Legion immediately following
CoIE instead of waiting 10 years, a lot of problems could have been
avoided.

This is something I have been saying for years; LSH never really rebooted
with Crisis and the Comic Boy series shoved everybody's face into the mess
during the whole Legends thing.

I agree...they should have rebooted following CoIE.



These problems could have easily been avoided if they put as much
planning and effort into the new status quo following CoIE as they did
into the event itself.

Been there, said that, got the T-Shirt.

You are right in saying that, pre-crisis, you didn't have to ask which
stories actually happened...instead you had to ask which stories
happened on which earth and to which version of each character? And
don't even try to claim that it was always clear...because IT WASN'T.

But it was a kind of game to figure out which story fit the several
unoffical Earths.

Not one I'm interested in playing.


Marvel has shown it is not having a multiverse that gets you into trouble:
^^^

1) it is doing brain dead storylines that require half the characters to
act like idiots and the other half like they are pod clones.

2) It is doing insane every book must be included even if it makes no sense
crossovers and totally FUBARing whatever storylines the writers are
currently in the middle of as a result.

3) It is having stories requiring you to ignore every piece of continuity
in existence (Emerald Twilight and One More Day) with the most moronic
explanations given. It gets worse when the fans can come up with better
reasons than the hack you had working on the book (Gwen Stacy's children).

Explain how any of these problems hinge on the existence of a
multiverse (and Marvel DOES have one, you know?)...bad writing/editing
is still bad writing/editing regardless of which earth you set the
story on...and there were plenty of bad stories pre-crisis.

Didn't READ the sentence did we? See the little word "not" over the "^^^"?

I did read the sentence...and the way you have it worded, it sounds
like you're blaming all of Marvel's problems on the absence of a
multiverse.


With DC's open ended multiverse writers and editors always had the option
of dumbing off a really stupid story off into limbo and anybody who
remembered the thing could assume it occurred on some other Earth. By
shoving everything on to one Earth with one timeline DC eliminated this
option and created the additional headache of allowing writers to write
stories that drew attention to it.

Here's an idea...don't any really stupid stories and there's no
problem...and pawning a crappy story off on an alternate earth is no
better than retconning it out of existence all together.


The Cosmic Boy mini series tie in to Legends was idiocy beyond belief. In
that series Comic Boy finds out not only has never been a Superboy but
that every major detail known about the 20th century is wrong. He talks
about how the people adored their heroes and find the anti-hero protests
going on, he then talks about the safe use of nuclear power and finds out
about Three Mile island, and finally when he talks about the safe space
program he finds out about the Challenger disaster. If this was not bad
enough you have the fact the Legion had used Time Bubbles to verify these
events. Cosmic Boy get home and we go into Legion of Superheroes #37 which
introduces the Pocket Universe.

The whole reason the Pocket Universe was needed was because of point 2
above happening. If there had not been a Cosmic Boy mini tie in to Legend
that shoved everybody's face into the fact the LSH's history was SNAFUed
then odds are LSH could have just quietly ignored the Superboy issue or had
a throw away panel where the memory altering ripples the Infinity Man had
been suppressing finally hit.

You have a relatively minor continuity problem--the first thing is NOT to
draw every Tom, ***, and Herry to the fact you have a minor continuity
problem. Furthermore you don't keep reminding everyone of the problem for
four straight issue--which is exactly what the Cosmic Boy mini did.

DC effectively took as you put it a "relatively isolated corner of the DCU"
shoved a neon sign over it and then proceeded to blow a freaking air horn
for four issues.

You're preaching to the choir...bad planning all around...but the
single univserse following CoIE didn't cause any of these problems
anyway...that was largely Byrne's Superman reboot.
.

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