Re: FINAL CRISIS #1: A Very Short Review

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:02:34 -0600, Bruce Grubb <bgrubb@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In article <q4lb541q8o8465dcdr464osdpei0h8dbjn@xxxxxxx>,
grinningdemon <grinningdemon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:06:59 -0600, Bruce Grubb <bgrubb@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Back to the one universe idea. It is clear to everyone it was and is a
mistake. Unless you have total dictatorial control there is no way to make
sure all the books in a shared universe have good continuity between each
other. Look at Marvel which has a multiverse but has marginalized it to
the point it might as well not exist. Continuity in the main universe
books is a total joke mainly because what is going on in one book cannot be
reconciled with what is going on in another published at the same time
because they involve the same characters.

Obviously it's not clear to everyone that it was and is a mistake or
we wouldn't be having this discussion and it WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDONE BY
NOW...I do believe they royally scewed up the execution but I still
think one universe was a good idea...and I think continuity was
generally better off post-crisis than pre-crisis (it certainly wasn't
any worse)...DC's conitnuity is currently particularly messy but it
stems not from the one universe idea but from the idiotic changes they
made at the end of Infinite Crisis that were never properly explained
and probably won't be anytime soon.

"Continuity was generally better off post-crisis than pre-crisis (it
certainly wasn't any worse)"? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. Pre-Crisis
Hawkman and the LSH were nowhere near the continuity shambles they were 5
years Post-Crisis. Pre-Crisis you didn't have this 'which stories actually
"happened"' question that hung over the Post-Crisis Universe like a wet
blanket while Pre-Crisis you always had things like Earth-B and Earth-E as
dumping grounds. DC's current earth has so many freaking heroes that it is
a wonder that they don't trip over each other.

Hawkman (while one of my personal favorites), is a relatively minor
character...and the problems with his character didn't start until
several years after CoIE when Hawkworld came out.

The Legion is also a relatively isolated corner of the DCU and,
frankly, I think dropping Superboy from their history was an
improvement...if they'd just rebooted the Legion immediately following
CoIE instead of waiting 10 years, a lot of problems could have been
avoided.

These problems could have easily been avoided if they put as much
planning and effort into the new status quo following CoIE as they did
into the event itself.

You are right in saying that, pre-crisis, you didn't have to ask which
stories actually happened...instead you had to ask which stories
happened on which earth and to which version of each character? And
don't even try to claim that it was always clear...because IT WASN'T.

As to DC having too many heroes, I don't see it...the DC earth is
actually much bigger than the real one or Marvel's (which was a
storypoint in JLA/Avengers) and they have not only the real-world
cities but a load of fictional ones...plenty of space for any number
of characters...and at least they're not ALL stuck in NYC.


Marvel has shown it is not having a multiverse that gets you into trouble:

1) it is doing brain dead storylines that require half the characters to
act like idiots and the other half like they are pod clones.

2) It is doing insane every book must be included even if it makes no sense
crossovers and totally FUBARing whatever storylines the writers are
currently in the middle of as a result.

3) It is having stories requiring you to ignore every piece of continuity
in existence (Emerald Twilight and One More Day) with the most moronic
explanations given. It gets worse when the fans can come up with better
reasons than the hack you had working on the book (Gwen Stacy's children).

Explain how any of these problems hinge on the existence of a
multiverse (and Marvel DOES have one, you know?)...bad writing/editing
is still bad writing/editing regardless of which earth you set the
story on...and there were plenty of bad stories pre-crisis.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: FINAL CRISIS #1: A Very Short Review
    ... Continuity in the main universe ... Pre-Crisis you didn't have this 'which stories actually ... DC's current earth has so many freaking heroes that it is ...
    (rec.arts.comics.dc.universe)
  • Re: FINAL CRISIS #1: A Very Short Review
    ... Continuity in the main universe ... Pre-Crisis you didn't have this 'which stories actually ... DC's current earth has so many freaking heroes that it is ...
    (rec.arts.comics.dc.universe)
  • Re: FINAL CRISIS #1: A Very Short Review
    ... Continuity in the main universe ... "Continuity was generally better off post-crisis than pre-crisis (it ...
    (rec.arts.comics.dc.universe)
  • Re: Infinite Crisis # 2
    ... The fact Crisis originly started as ... > clammering from the fans for a streamlined universe. ... > is that eventually you are going to have continuity problems. ... with telling the stories they think will be the most entertaining. ...
    (rec.arts.comics.dc.universe)
  • Re: Conventions of War by Walter Jon Williams
    ... I'd prefer it if any future stories in that universe didn't ... >> use Martinez and Sula, at least in more than cameo roles. ... he isn't getting a constant chain of promotions and medals, ... from the kind of stories that people have enjoyed so far. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.written)