Re: Time to grow up (warning pseudo academic content)

On Aug 13, 1:42 pm, "Michael Wood" <no-...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
As an observation (and I don't know whether this is deliberate or not), I
note that many villains in comics and related media actually seem to be
characterised by a certain degree of immaturity. When the villains do go
"good", they have often "grown up" and taken on adult responsibilities.

That's because in our (and most) societies, growing up equates to
becoming more responsible.

To quote the final line of the third season of Coupling (and this is
from memory so it could be slightly out) Susan, on announcing she is
preggers: "It's time to grow up, it's someone else's turn to be the
child."

Joss Whedon's Buffy was a prime example of this. His vampires act like
completely irresponsible teenagers. When they are stopped from preying on
people (Spike with his brain chip and/or soul), they start to grow up and
act like people. In fact, it is almost like vampires are an adolescent form
of some other lifeform.

Vampires often do behave like irresponsible teenagers. Whether is is
the "losing the soul" aspect or the release from the social rules,
that's how the behavour is often shown.

The same is true in comics. Mxypltlk is completely childish (you might even
be able to argue that his 3d representation is actually only oner aspect of
his 5d personality).

An obvious example of a completely childish character... but without
him "growing up" and going straight it is a poor one for your case.

The WEHT TMOT Mxy did "change" he became less childish, but also
became evil and violent rather than going straight. So not a good
example at all.

When crims go straight, they often start acting like
adults - Pied Piper,

Never experienced him as a villain, so I couldn't say.

James Jesse,

I never felt he was that responsible as a non-villain. Possibly more
responsible than he was as a villain, but not completely.

I also think that Pied and Jesse are bad examples because... well,
they are apparently villains again, but have remained responsible and
"adult".

Marvel's Sandman and Molecule Man. Before
the awful paedophile stories, Aquaman's foe, the Barracuda.

I know nothing of these characters.

Some of the looking back stuff about Barry Allen says similar things. The
Rogues have awesome power, enough to conquer the world on a good day. But
Barry kept them playing the villain game, focussed on him and not on their
true potential.

Was that a character flaw or a writing flaw?

And how did Barry keep them playing the villain game. I'm not
actually seeing your point here.

Heatwave was growing up before they turned his gimmick into
an addictive mental illness. Even Black Adam can be seen as a strutting
teenager, full of insecurity, compared with the younger but more mature
Billy Batson.

I wouldn't say that Black Adam was a strutting teenager full of
insecurities.

I personally find the growth of these villains very
entertaining/fulfilling/uplifting. It saddens me that "re-writers" think
these characters are "better as villains" and throw them back with no
explanation.

It is a shame when character growth is reversed. There are some good,
interesting stories that send a character straight, that are
completely reversed later. However, just like the reversal of deaths,
it's all a matter of returning things to their "best" state for story
telling.

Perhaps this suggests an immaturity in the writers themselves.

Or the readers who want to see the hero fight the same villain again
whether he has died or grown.

So feel free to discuss away. Deliberate choice or just the way it works? Is
evel really an inability to grow up and take responsibility? Whatever.

Certainly, a reformed villain usually behaves in a more responsible
manner, but rather than this being a growing up thing, I see it,
rather as an engagement with society thing.

Villains, especially Supervillains, are generally shown as being
separate from the rules, both legal and social, and as such can be
described as being less responsible.

However, in the real world, we have people, celebs, who feel they are
apart from the rest of society and behave in "childish" ways. Some of
them were quite responsible children who "cut loose" as adults or
young adults.

And the heroes themselves aren't the best examples of people who are
grown up.

They dress in silly costumes. They, too, break societies laws (to a
lesser and more acceptable degree).

Batman can be seen as either a young boy who grew up in an instant or
a man who is still that scared little boy.

There are any number of superheroes who are and remain heroes but
behave like children or irresponisbly. Blue Beetle, Booster Gold,
Wally West spring instantly to mind as characters who have been
heroes, but children.

So, I think that it's a matter of playing by society's rules, rather
than being "grown up." It is true that a lot teenagers are finding
their way and deliberately try to break those rules, and most adults
through increased responsibilities placed on them or by discovering
why those rules tend to live by those rules, so we see people who
follow the rules as being more grown up.

Villains, who, by definition, do not follow societies rules will in
that context be seen as being childish, and once they do begin to
follow the rules, will obviously be seen as having "grown up."

===
= DUG.
===

.

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