Re: Book review: The Twilight of Atheism (Alister McGrath)

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:02:31 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote:

>
> Bob wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:17:05 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Bob wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:38:31 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
>> >> >> >> The fact of evolution is not in question, but the "study of evolution"
>> >> >> >> today involves studying the detailed mechanisms of inheritance,
>> >> >> >> mutation, and natural selection.
>> >> >> > Indeed. A male and a female have to mutate at the same time and same
>> >> >> > place for fertile offspring.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It doesn't need to be at the same time and place for a recessive
>> >> >> gene and it only takes one for a dominant. Read some genetics.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you know what you are talking about? You do not give that
>> >> > impression.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I'm no expert, but the comment you are replying to is right on the money
>> >> according to the education I received. Doesn't take an expert to
>> >> understand a basic thing like this. This is on the order of "What's the
>> >> capitol of Minnesota?" Even if you don't know the answer offhand it's
>> >> pretty easy to look up. Here are some references to help explain how
>> >> mutations and inheritance interact and relate to evolution:
>> >>
>>
>> <Clip a lot of stuff complaining that the references I cited do not prove
>> the point you were, I assume, objecting to. BTW, I can only assume you are
>> objecting to the statement you are responding to since your response was
>> simply an insult to the original author and hade no substantive content.>
>
> And what about the insult given to me by the original author? What
> makes you neglect that? Let me quote the insult to me "Read some
> genetics." By saying this - an intimidatory statement - after making an
> irrelevant statement preceding it (irrelevant as it had to do with
> disease and not mutation to higher life forms) the orignal author was
> showing his disrespect for me. Totally unprovoked, also. I had not
> insulted him, or anyone, before. I was merely responding to an answer
> to my post by John McCarthy.

I am sorry I was not sensitive to the insult to you. It didn't seem all
that harsh to me but perhaps that was because it wasn't directed at me.
Again sorry about that.

>
> Since you support this person and his attitude, what should then be my
> attitude for you? Evidently you think that a person with such a name
> as mine has to be bullied and suppressed. But at least, you have given
> some references to some web sites, and at least one among them had some
> relevance to the point under discussion.

I had no intention of bullying and surpressing.

>
>> Assuming you disagree with the above comment on the inheritability of
>> mutated genes and how that relates to evolution, you will need to do
>> better than your original no-content response if you hope to convince
>> anyone else.
>
> My point was and is very simple, and already made. It should be clear
> to any village idiot not entirely inebriated.

I'll let that pass this time.

>
>> And yes, none of those references I cited were written with the sole
>> purpose of corroborating the statement above that you apparently object to
>
> I object to irrelevancies. I am interested in mathematical
> probabilities, and simulation following extensive mathematical
> modelling - since that is my living - and I hope John McCarthy shares
> this interest, since he is a great in computer science. In the past I
> have proposed making a mathematical model for evolution with all known
> and relevant data and the most acclaimed theories, and then running a
> simulation program, taking into account the rate of mutation, and its
> direction, from external stimuli affecting randomness rates. How do
> things work out, when subjected to rigorous mathematical analysis?
> This sort of research, has it been done? I think, not.

Actually I think it has. See
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/nonlin.htm
http://www.brightsurf.com/news/nov_02/EDU_news_112102.html
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.earth.32.092203.122440;jsessionid=ixEk1cci2rT6?cookieSet=1&journalCode=earth
Google shows many others.

But, I don't know if these are similar to your ideas or not.

>
>> but they all discuss gene mutations and how they relate to inheritance
>> and/or evolution -- among many other things that you refer to (and object
>> to as not addresing the specific topic) in your immediate response (which
>> I have clipped for brevity). I'm not interested enough to cut and paste
>> specific sentences for you. Read them again more carefully. Do your own
>> research.
>
> All you did was post some links. I went through them, and found just
> one relevant to the topic under discussion. I posted some excerpts
> from same. My point remains.

I guess I am no longer sure what your point was. I thought it was in
support of the statement:

"A male and a female have to mutate at the same time and same place for
fertile offspring."

But as far as I can see that point remains unsupported. A mutated gene
need not prevent fertile offspring.


.

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