Re: Invisible Nazgul and Other Musings

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 03:34:06 GMT, "Leon Trollski" <fandom@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>In response to the quote request, p. 338 Unfinished Tales, Chapter IV The
>Hunt For The Ring:
>
>"The Lord of Morgul therefore led his companions over Anduin, unclad and
>unmounted, and invisible to eyes, and yet a terror to all living things as
>they passed near. . . they reached the west-shores of Anduin a little north
>of Sarn Gebir, as they had trysted; and there received horses and raiment
>that were secretly ferried over the river."


Yep, there's "unclad" plain as day.

You now have a dilemma.

Either Tolkien was using poetic license to mean "unclad in *visible*
clothes, but still wearing their *invisible* gear...

OR

They were given *invisible* as well as visible gear to wear...

OR

The description of the "invisible" gear Frodo saw, both at Weathertop
and at the Ford of Bruinen, is wrong.

Since the latter comprises two independent confirmations, I tend to
take it as read.

It seems illogical that ordinary people could *mind* invisible
clothing long enough to give it to the Riingwraiths [how could you
tell where you left it? You'd always be losing it, et cetera]

It seems then that the reference to "unclad" means "not clad in
*visible* clothes.

>Where's the need for invisible permanent clothing? And where does it say a
>Ring of Power would fade dead matter?

These questions are related. The Rings turn animate and inanimate
matter invisible. Well, mortal matter and unhallowed matter anyway.

If people who turn invisible "fade" with continued use of a Ring, why
shouldn't their clothes also "fade" permanently from the incarnate
world? The issue seems the degree of use of the Ring, not the length
of time. Tolkien never really explains why Gollum didn't fade IIRC,
but it centres his usage of the Ring and his indomitable will.

>Frodo's vision of the Nazgul on Weathertop must also be compared to his
>vision of Glorfindel's arrival. In each case we are seeing something "upon
>the other side", in my opinion not literal but symbolic.

Neither was symbolic. Read the relevant passages again.

Frodo saw the clothing, in too much detail for it to have been
"symbolic"

Similarly, Gandalf informs Frodo that he saw Glorfindel *as he
appears* on the spirit plane, not some "representation" of him. This
is what a High Elf looks like in the wraith Realm, a figure of shining
light.

We can speculate that Glorfindel was probably too far away and too
bright for Frodo [who was at the end of his endurance and abou to
faint] to make out any details of his clothing, but the implication is
that Elvish gear has a presence in the spirit world also. Look at the
effect of Elven rope on Gollum.

M.
.

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