Re: Megami71

Abraham Evangelista wrote:

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:36:05 -0500, The Wanderer
<inverseparadox@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Abraham Evangelista wrote:

Well, gee if you wanna be vague... :-)

This isn't quite what I wanted to say here, I'll admit, but it was
about the best I could do at the time.

Just playing with you really. :-) Didn't mean anything by it.

Even so, my above statement is true regardless.

I've been learning with JSL, which is mostly similar to the
Ministry of Education's choice in romanizations, but let's face
it, EVERYBODY ELSE uses Hepburn.

Actually, I use a system of my own devising, based on the twin
goals of "represent each syllable with something which sounds as
close to the same as possible" (hence "dzu" instead of "du", "shi"
instead of "si") and, at a higher priority, "allow of no ambiguity
in either direction" (in other words, make it possible to convert a
given sequence of kana into romaji and back again by automated
processes without the possibility of introducing errors). This
latter leads me to some somewhat clunky contrivances, but I know of
no other system which is equally versatile.

You go through all that trouble?

Indeed I do (though I don't offhand see what part of it really qualifies
as "trouble"). Using a non-fully-precise romanization system is just not
remotely an option, in my view.

(Not that I'm one to talk about being anal on the topic of
romanization... I started this mess to begin with!) In the end
though, so long as we all know what shows we mean, it's not really an
issue.

Not a big one, no, but there's a certain amount of room left for
disputation.

That said, ISTR that someone on this group said "There's really no
such thing as Romaji. Learn Kana."

I *do* know kana, but since I have no means of entering or manipulating
it better than "type romaji into JEDI and copy-and-paste the search
results", I work primarily with romaji. Find me a better solution (which
a: allows me to enter *any* kana easily and b: does not require me to
type in someone else's romaji scheme in order to do so - JEDI doesn't
fit b:, but is clunky enough that that's not a big consideration), and
I'll consider using it.

(Actually, JEDI has apparently been shut down just within the past
month, so that route has been cut off for me too. There are a few other
'online search' tools I can use instead, but they're at least equally
clunky.)

That said, I just found it odd that the official website uses
Kasimasi while the art uses Kashimashi. I don't suppose that
either of them is particualrly better. :-)

I'd say that "Kashimashi" is better, unless by chance this is an
occasion (the first in my experience) on which that kana is
pronounced without the 'slurring' of the consonant; when nothing is
lost thereby, greater precision is always preferable.

You're thinking in english again.

I don't think this is true - I think we're working in different
paradigms. If not, then I probably think it's irrelevant.

I'm not trying to work on "Japanese" vs. "English"; I am (as I currently
see it) trying to work with "sound". See below.

Remember, romanization is nothing more than a way to represent the
kana, which is always pronounced with the slurred sh' sound. Si or
shi, so long as you say it with the slur you're in good shape. :-)

But the thing is, "si" is *not* read with that slur, unless the reader
is drunk or possesses a speech impediment; therefore it is not a valid
way of representing the sound ordinarily written し. Someone reading it
who does not know about the Japanese underpinnings, and associated
pronunciation rules, almost certainly would not pronounce the syllable
correctly; if the sound is represented with "shi", then such a person
only *might* not pronounce the syllable correctly (on the vowel sound
itself). Thus, something is lost in the representation "si" - on which,
see above.

IOW, I'm not only trying to represent the "kana", I'm also trying to
represent the "sound", or the "pronunciation", or what-have-you. I
believe I mentioned something to that effect before, as one of the two
goals of my romanization scheme...

(GAH! I really need to learn the international phonetic alphabet.
It's been on my backburner of things to do for a while now, but it'd
be so useful in situations like this!)

It's in my queue, as well, but it's far on the back burner for the time
being; there have been times when it would be useful, but they've been
few enough and of little enough importance that it's never really risen
high on my priority list.

Triangle Hearts was the H-game. A Triangle Hearts OAV was
produced, and Nanoha was an alt-universe spin-off from that OVA.

This would make Nanoha A's, the sequel to a spin-off of a
derivative work of an H-game.

And that would make the Nanoha A's manga a derivative work of the
sequel to a spin-off of a derivative work of an H-game.

Confused yet? :-) It's not important really. Just sit back and
enjoy the Loli.. er... show. :-)

I actually haven't yet watched past the first episode, but I have
the entire first season, and I just have to sit down and watch it
one of these weeks. ^_^

Sappy, waffy, pretty, but oddly quite violent stuff. I loved it to
death, but it's not for everyone. If you survive to the third
episode, you'll probably enjoy the entire first season, and if you
liked that, A's is really just more of the same, with more lolis,
more bouncies, more doggies, and more explosions.

My primary problem with it is likely to be the animation/art style
(specifically, some of the inconsistencies therein); my secondary
problem is likely to be certain intangible aspects which I would
remember more clearly if I'd watched the first episode since it was
brand new, but for which I do not currently have a handy word.

Hmm. "Our Gargoyle Yoshinaga"? My rule (correct or not) says,
"If there ain't a particle listed, and you thinkg there ought to
be one, it's probably a dropped wa or ga."

I don't necessarily think that there needs to be one here; it works
well enough for me (both in your translation and in mine) without
one. Still, as you like.

(I'd probably prefer to replace my "the" with "our" or "my", now
that I look at it again.)

Why is it, exactly, that you so frequently don't snip the last bit of
the post you're replying to, even when you don't reply to that part?

(For that matter, there have been a few places in the *middle* of the
last few posts I've replied to where you didn't snip something I said
but also didn't reply to it; I've mostly snipped them myself, except
where the need for context would seem to dictate otherwise. A product of
the same phenomenon?)

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Megami71
    ... which is always pronounced with the slurred sh' sound. ... almost certainly would not pronounce the syllable ... And that would make the Nanoha A's manga a derivative work of the ... I hit the reply button too soon, or forget to snip. ...
    (rec.arts.anime.misc)
  • Re: Is "wa" a punctuation mark?
    ... language because that's what is relevant to romaji vs. kana. ... they are when listening to speech). ... reading it doesn't matter *what* they pronounce it as, ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Is "wa" a punctuation mark?
    ... If it's because the "natural" pronunciation of that spelling doesn't ... If you would get that hiccup from the kana, ... But that's exactly what romaji are for... ... consequent purpose of an attempt to aid the reader in knowing what ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Beginner Question about Kana/Kanji/Romaji
    ... That I should study Kana & Kanji first. ... I do think you should be learning to read kana from the first ... I think there's a good reason *against* learning romaji in the early ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Megami71
    ... no such thing as Romaji. ... Learn Kana." ... of representing all such small characters. ... and allows you to pick from any other kanji that sound the same. ...
    (rec.arts.anime.misc)
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