Re: FMA 24 - Bonding Memories


"Dave Baranyi" <a_nospam.b_nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1A3rf.2921$1Y4.345028@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "elsie" <lcubbison@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:yS2rf.9167$3Z.2522@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "Dave Baranyi" <a_nospam.b_nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:by2rf.2906$1Y4.339300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> "Fish Eye no Miko" <fisheye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:na2rf.3581$nj1.3289@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> elsie wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And, again, despite everything, Al still calls Ed "brother". I wonder
>>>> if the original has him saying "nee-san" here.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes - Al always refers to Ed as "nee-san".
>>>
>>> Another thing about Al's speech pattern, he always refers to himself as
>>> "boku", which is "little boy" talk. Ed, on the other hand, refers to
>>> himself as "ore" - which is essentially "tough guy" talk. Neither of
>>> them use "watashi", which is the "polite" way to refer to oneself that
>>> is taught in Japanese language classes.
>>>
>>> Dave Baranyi
>>>
>>
>> That's something I've been wondering about. How does a Japanese male
>> learn or decide which pronoun he's going to use about himself? Is it a
>> progression from boku to ore? Who would absolutely not use ore? Who would
>> always use watashi?
>>
>
> Okay, let's start with the "easy" one. <g> "Watashi" is what is taught in
> Japanese classes as the equivalent to "I" ( but it isn't quite, but that's
> another story). When speaking "formal" Japanese - in a business context,
> to "superiors", etc - one would use "watashi", or even more formally,
> "watakushi". (My friend from Osaka commented, when I asked her about
> "watakushi", that "Only the Emperor would probably use that". <L>)
>
So there's the way you're supposed to speak, and the way you really do
speak. Or in English, the difference between Broadcast Standard and BBC and
the dialects that people actually use, except that in English, only
professional communicators are really using the Broadcast Standard.

> In formal Japanese, "watashi" is relatively gender-neutral, but in
> ordinary conversation it is usually only used by women. (A less formal
> version used by women is "atashi", which you will also hear gays use in
> anime comedies.) But in truly formal situations you try not to use any
> pronouns at all, whether referring to yourself or to others. (Essentially,
> to "think" in Japanese you have to stop "thinking" pronouns and most
> articles...after a while it just becomes natural.)
>
That would be very difficult to get into the habit of. I read somewhere in a
Tsubasa manga translation note by Del Rey, that "you" carries the same
difficulties. Does Japanese use the idea "you" in a different way? What
about the third person pronouns?

> One of the Japanese business cultural givens is that "after work", you
> "relax" your speech. So businessmen who use formal speech during the day
> revert to informal speech when out for dinner and drinks after work. I've
> had Japanese businessmen insist that I not use formal language when we are
> having a business dinner in the evening. (It can be damn hard to switch
> speech patterns after having formal Japanese drilled into you by language
> teachers - I tend to need to do a mental switch by thinking in anime
> terms...<L>)
>
Ah, code switching, I get it. In English, code switching is generally
between a non-standard dialect (Ebonics, Appalachian) and the standard
dialect, while in Japanese the code switching is between levels of
politeness.

> Okay, "boku", "ore" and so on... As I mentioned, "boku" is little kid's
> talk. Pre-teen boys tend to use it. It "sounds" wrong for a teen to use
> it, let alone an adult male. It sort of parallels the shift from "-chan"
> to "-kun" in the way that names are said as boys grow up. The analogy I
> can think of in English is when boys stop wanting to be called names like
> "Jimmy" or "Davey" and want to be called "Jim" or "Dave", because the
> shorter versions "sound" more "grown up".
>
Okay, I get it. It's the shift away from the diminutive form to a more adult
form. But one of Tezuka's versions of Saiyuki was called "Boku no Son Goku."
What would be the reason for using boku in that construction?

> For the most part women would never use either "boku" or "ore", although
> you occasionally hear those terms from female characters in some anime
> comedies when a girl is being portrayed as being somewhat "masculine". But
> I can't think of a situation in the real world where you would hear
> either.
>
> So the big key in FMA in the Japanese language version is that Al always
> refers to himself, and in general speaks, using a pre-teen boy's pattern
> of speech. Except for the pre-teen flashbacks Ed uses an older speech
> pattern, and even in the flashbacks he doesn't speak as much "little kid"
> speech as Al. Ed also almost never uses "formal" language - it really
> stands out when he does. That implies a "tough guy" character, as well as
> a lack of "normal" respect for others. So Ed's arrogance/hubris stands out
> very strongly in the language patterns that he uses. Only when Ed is in
> shock does he revert to a softer, younger speech pattern.
>
That's interesting, because those are things that in English are conveyed
more through inflection and vocal quality than through word choice. Because
Aaron Dismuke is a child, he has the appropriate vocal quality for Al,
whereas Vic Mignogna is an adult male, and so he gives Ed more of that edge.

> That's why I keep on asking about the choice of English words in the
> English version - the language used in the Japanese version of FMA tells
> volumes about each of the characters. For example, Mustang is very similar
> in his language usage to Ed, except that Mustang is a LOT more
> obsequiously formal in his language to his superiors.

Ah, obsequious, such a great word. To me, the English Mustang comes across
through his voice (Travis Willingham) as a confident, competent military
man, without the pomposity that Armstrong does.


Scar is even coarser in his language - it
> is something of a cross between yakuza-speak and a dialect, but I presume
> that is deliberately done in order to emphasize the "differences" of the
> Ishbalans from the Central folks.

Again the English performance here is a matter of vocal quality. There are
rough edges to Dameon Clarke's voice that aren't in Travis Willingham's
performance. In the most recent episode, during the voiceover to the
flashback, Clarke softens the edges and makes his voice more reflective than
aggressive.

>
> Dave Baranyi
>
>> laurie
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


.

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