Re: slrn not showing MessageID in Score File

Sidney Lambe wrote:

Blinky the Shark <no.spam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Sidney Lambe wrote:

Blinky the Shark <no.spam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

andrew wrote:

On 2008-08-27, CGeek Wannabe
<john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Anyway, according to BtS's site

http://improve-usenet.org/filters_ex1.html

For Pan and slrn, use this filter: [*] Score:: =-9999
Message-ID: googlegroups

[...]

In my understanding, Message-ID can be used to filter out
google groupers and web tv'ers and any others (like aioe).

There is a big problem with this approach, as I am sure
Blinky points out on his site. Anyone who posts using a GG
MID will be filtered by this rule, this will cover not only
original posts but any direct responses made with a GG MID
to _any_ thread.

I only see scoring, above, on the MID header. That is fine;
that is what I support; I have no reason to warn against what
I support. Killing all GG posts is the /objective/, after
all.

This results in very odd looking threads with others
responding to 'phantom' initial posts that you cannot see
and then responding to GG responses to this and other posts
that you also cannot see. It becomes a little confusing.

Not really.

The problem will be compounded if you add filtering on
'References' with GG, which I know Blinky does _not_
advocate, as whole threads can be lost. Once there is a GG
MID in the References, ie a single GG response to a
'sensible' thread the entire subsequent thread tree is
filtered.

Correct. I will not *empower* the Gropers to poison entire
subthreads Empowering those which one wishes would drown does
not make sense.

So unless I'm wrong, Message-ID is more general than you
state.

If you mean "filtering on a MID *in the References header*
is more general than only filtering on it *in the Message-ID
header only", you are correct.

I will admit that I have not routinely used 'create_score'
from within slrn but the function of _directly_ scoring
against MID is definitely not there now. slrn _extrapolates_
a 'Reference:' header instead, drawing on the actual MID of
this message, which I think is actually pretty ingenious.

If you feel strongly enough you could perhaps post to
slrn-users and request that such a feature could be
(re)considered. Myself I feel a little uneasy about scoring
against a class of Usenet users and scoring directly against
a MID in this manner leads down that path.

I think it would help if, every time you say "scoring against
a MID" you would specify if you mean scoring on a MID in the
MID header or a MID in the References header.



A problem I see with blocking all posts from googlegroups is
that I've seen many examples of the people who run some of the
free servers denying service to people whose politics they
disagree with.

What does that have to do with binning GG posts?

Not going to name any names, but many such cases have been
described on alt.free.newsservers.

So despite all the bad things about goolglegroups, they really
are a bastion of free speech.

And I'm free to not listen. Freedom of speech is not guarantee
of being heard.



Sure. My point is that GG is not all bad.

Besides being a bastion of free speech, which some of the free
newsservers are not, it is often the point of entry for
newcomers to the usenet. Google search results lead people to
its usenet interface who hadn't previously known of the usenet's
existence.

Then they can be taught about servers and news readers and such
and weaned off GG.

I commend the teachers. Check back when you've got them all
educated and weaned. Until then, I'll stick with reality and
filter them.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
.

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