Re: Filters

agent.v2.user <agent.v2.user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 12 Dec 2007 16:34:57 GMT 'Frank Slootweg'
wrote this on news.software.readers:

agent.v2.user <agent.v2.user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 12 Dec 2007 12:49:04 GMT 'Frank Slootweg'
wrote this on news.software.readers:
[...]

Are you suggesting that I should have created a new filter for that
*original* MID, by extracting the MID from the References header
of the 1st reply which I had pressed Ignore against? Such action
would only be useful *if* another poster then decided to post a
reply and change the Subject title as Mike Dee did on this occasion,
because all other regular replies would automatically have joined
the thread in my Ignored list and I would never see them.

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting. *You* consider this a problem. *This*
is a solution. As you yourself said, preventing someone from changing
the subject is not possible, so this is the only possible solution.

ok. But as I said, that's a totally impractical solution for the
reasons I previously stated. Clearly there is no practical solution.

Yes there *is*, but you (apparently) do not understand what that
solution is or/and how it works. That's *your* problem/concern, not
ours, so at least *try* to understand it, instead of sounding like a
broken record.

Face it, the regulars in this group know a lot more about News and
newsreaders than you do. That's not something to be ashamed of, but to
take advantage of.

So, how would I know that another poster might choose to post a
(2nd) reply to the *original* article and change the Subject title?
Obviously I would never know because I don't do mindreading.

Irrelevant. See above.

It gets worse...

There are literally hundreds of new posts each day on different
newsgroups which fall into the same category; if you also add in the
many hundreds of sporge articles in the same category, I'd spend
the rest of my life creating filters for the original MIDs on the
off-chance that someone might decide to post a reply to them and
may also decide to change the Subject title.

I think that's highly unlikely, hundreds of new threads where you have
pre-killed the OP, but not responses to such posts.

Whether it's unlikely or not is irrelevant, because to be sure that
my message list wasn't potentially filled with replies to
non-existant articles (lots of new threads starting with Re:), I'd
have to create a filter for each one of them (after tracking down
the MIDs from God-knows where), since I cannot predict which ones
might attract a reply.

You extract the MIDs from the (start of) the References: header of the
article which you *do* have (i.e. the "Re:" one). It's *right in your
face*, hardly "God-knows where"! (Agent *can* display the References:
header of the currently displayed article, can't it?)

In this example, I Ignored the 1st reply and never thought for one
moment that someone would reply again and change the Subject.

Again: If you had done what we propose, the Subject: change is totally
irrelevant, because you would kill on References:, not on Subject:.

But, as you say yourself, Agent *can't do* that, so your *real*
problem is your broken newsreader. No amount of jumping up and down is
going to change that.

But of course in most cases, the MID isn't even available to me
because the original article has been dropped and there are no
replies. In any event, such action would mean that I'd never have
any time left to visit the bar for a beer or three ;-)

Even more unlikely, that the first response would be a subject change.

It maybe unlikely but it happened this time.

No it did *not* happen this time. The Subject: change was a *second*
level response.

It maybe unlikely but it happened this time. It can happen again
... and again. Like I said, I have no way of knowing which articles
might be replied to, so the only safe way is to create a filter for
every one after tracking down the MIDs. That makes it totally
impractical.

As we've explained over and over again, if your newsreader isn't
broken it's trivial, not at all "totally impractical". As I said, my
newsreader - and any sane newsreader for that matter - *does* it. Are
you going to tell me my newsreader doesn't do what it does?

And worse...

My news client doesn't filter on the References header

Ah, *now* you get to the point! Your newsreader is *broken*########sub-
standard.

Nope. My news client is not broken. I know of no news client that
can intelligently filter out reply posts to miscellaneous articles
which don't even exist! It would have nothing to filter on.
Surely you can understand that?

What I understand is that *you* don't understand the solution we are
proposing. The required message-id (MID) you need to filter on is in the
References: header of the very article you are looking at. [1]

and there
appears to be a working limit to the number of filters which can be
used in NewsProxy - IME ~100 before it has a complete meltdown
freakout. That would also impose a huge limitation on the strategy
because I'm already close to that upper limit.

So, instead of fighting windmills - i.e. trying to change what,
*according to your opinion*, people should not do - you should
concentrate on switching to software which is more up to scratch. After
all, that's what this group is all about, isn't it?

I agree that there is no sensible solution, except that people don't
change the Subject title when they post replies because of the
problem it causes to other people.

No, *that* (the latter) is the insensible/impractical solution. The
practical/working solution is to kill on References:

That takes us back to where we started.

And afaik there is no news client that can do what is needed.
You are welcome to prove me wrong but I bet you can't do that.

We and I have already done that several times. That *you* don't
*understand* the solution or/and subject matter is not our fault/
concern.

FYI, my newsreader has no problem whatsoever with your scenarios and
hasn't had for a decade or so.

Sorry, if you believe that then you don't understand the problem.
I apologise for assuming you did.

Please don't give us lectures. Do you really think that all of us -
regular of this group - do not understand the 'problem' and that you - a
newbie (in this matter) do understand it? Are you *that* narrowminded /
pompous?

[1] I see that Agent also breaks the first MID in References: so it is
even more broken than agent.v2.user admitted.

To other Agent users (Yeah,right!): Is there an Agent version which
does not have these bugs (not being able to kill on References: and
breaking first MID in References:)?
.

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