Re: Filters


On 12 Dec 2007 12:49:04 GMT 'Frank Slootweg'
wrote this on news.software.readers:

agent.v2.user <agent.v2.user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:46:24 -0500 'Ted S.'
wrote this on news.software.readers:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:01:15 +0000, agent.v2.user quoted me:

If the OP were using a better newsreader (I'm guessing he's using
Agent, since that what's in his From: header, but there's no 4ax.com
in the MID, and no User-Agent header), he could score on the
References header, and ignore the OT responses to the WTC conspiracy
crap that way.

I'm sure you're trying to help but... are you seriously suggesting
that I should have created a new filter to rid myself of a thread
containing *WTC*?

No; I was suggesting you ignore the thread based on the MID of the
original. Note that Mike's message at Message-ID:
<emteedee-A1246A.14323811122007@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> had the header:

References:
<61aeaaf6-81c6-4a4e-b3f7-7be7584bd696@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<1qp7kw778nnwu$.ada7wm5ri74s.dlg@xxxxxxxxxx>


Neither of those appear in my message list because I already have
kill filters in use for most Googlers and you can't thread a reply
to an article which doesn't exist.


Indeed you can not *thread* a reply in that case, but you *can* *kill*
the full thread on the *MID*. *That* is the point Ted is making.

er well...
The only place I could get the MID for an article that doesn't
appear in my message list (because it was dropped by my filters)
would be the first reply (if there was one) which appears in my
message list. Otherwise the MID isn't available to me.

In this WTC case there was a 1st reply and that's the article I saw
and pressed the Ignore key against in my news client, thinking that
would be the beginning and end of it. Other times there are no
replies at all, so I never see any part of the original article or
any threads to do with it.

Are you suggesting that I should have created a new filter for that
*original* MID, by extracting the MID from the References header
of the 1st reply which I had pressed Ignore against? Such action
would only be useful *if* another poster then decided to post a
reply and change the Subject title as Mike Dee did on this occasion,
because all other regular replies would automatically have joined
the thread in my Ignored list and I would never see them.

So, how would I know that another poster might choose to post a
(2nd) reply to the *original* article and change the Subject title?
Obviously I would never know because I don't do mindreading.

It gets worse...

There are literally hundreds of new posts each day on different
newsgroups which fall into the same category; if you also add in the
many hundreds of sporge articles in the same category, I'd spend
the rest of my life creating filters for the original MIDs on the
off-chance that someone might decide to post a reply to them and
may also decide to change the Subject title.
But of course in most cases, the MID isn't even available to me
because the original article has been dropped and there are no
replies. In any event, such action would mean that I'd never have
any time left to visit the bar for a beer or three ;-)

And worse...

My news client doesn't filter on the References header and there
appears to be a working limit to the number of filters which can be
used in NewsProxy - IME ~100 before it has a complete meltdown
freakout. That would also impose a huge limitation on the strategy
because I'm already close to that upper limit.

So even if - such as in this case - you don't have the *article* of
the OP, you have its *MID*, because the References: header MUST have the
MID of the OP (as its first reference).

Yes, the MID of the original article appears in any reply.

So you have the MID of the OP. Now use *that* - *not* the Subject: -
to kill the thread and everybody is happy. *If* anyone changes the
Subject: - as was the case here - the thread remains killed, because it
was killed on MID, not on Subject:.

Yes I understand what you're saying, but it's totally impractical.
See above.

So what we're saying is that if you would kill differently then you
have been killing, then you wouldn't have the problem you're having.

Now, is that helpful or what?

I can see from your thoughtful comments that you have tried to be
helpful and I appreciate that. Sadly, it's even more complicated as
I delve into it and explain above. The filter idea is not practical.
.

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