Re: Correct syntax slrn NNTPSERVER?

SINNER <arcade.master@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
* Frank Slootweg wrote in news.software.readers:

?Q? <boxcars@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In <news:4693cc3b$0$29557$dbd45001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Frank Slootweg <this@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[deleted]
However (AFAIK) what one 'sees', i.e. the shell,
all of the commands, the ('command'/shell) configuration files, the
APIs, etc. *is* "Linux". The only thing which is not part of Linux
is Cygwin itself, i.e. the one DLL (library). Everything else is
part of Linux. It's just *packaged/installed* differently than other
Linux distributions, but if different packaging/installation would
make something not (part of) "Linux", then Linux mostly wouldn't
exist.

Most (all?) of what you're talking about are GNU things. I don't see
any grounds for calling GNU stuff Linux-like instead of UNIX-like;
they'll work with UNIX or (GNU/)Linux or Cygwin.

<Linux_ignorance_mode>

But isn't the same 'stuff' (i.e. "the shell, all of the commands, ...,
the APIs, etc." which I mentioned) on Linux systems *also* "GNU
stuff"? If not, which parts of the 'stuff' I mentioned *are* "GNU
stuff" and which are not?

</Linux_ignorance_mode>

GNU Utilities are just that. Linux is a kernal, nothing more, it isnt an
environment, thats reserved for things like KDE/Gnome etc.

True, but "GNU Utilities" are *only* used in a Linux environment or a
Linux-like environment, *not* in a UNIX or UNIX-like environment,
because if they are/were, that environment would per definition *not* be
a UNIX or UNIX-like environment, because those conform to (de jure)
standards, while GNU/Linux don't (see my earlier remarks on (de jure)
standard(s)).

Worded differently: If one uses "Linux", one uses "GNU things/stuff/
utilities". If one uses "Cygwin", one *also* uses "GNU things/stuff/
utilities". In *that* sense, "Linux" and "Cygwin" are comparable.
Agreed?

[deleted]

The Cygwin home page says:

What Is Cygwin?

Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows.

Which isnt really true. Afterall, what is a Linux Like environment? The
kernal is not running under Cygwin so there is nothing Linux 'like' about
Cygwin, it can be called UNIX like just as easily, heck, why not call it
BSD like?

You snipped the most relevant parts:

It consists of two
parts:

* A DLL (cygwin1.dll) which acts as a Linux API emulation layer
providing substantial Linux API functionality.

* A collection of tools which provide Linux look and feel.

So Cygwin offers a "Linux-like environment", a "Linux API" and "Linux
look and feel", which is more or less what I said. (At least (I think)
what I said does not conflict with it.)

So, as I said, Cygwin *is* "Linux-like" because 1) it provides the exact
*same* (system call) API as Linux and 2) it provides a Linux look and
feel, i.e. not only the *same* shell, commands, etc., but also the
*same* (configuration and other) files, the *same* libraries, etc., etc.
(see my earlier list(s) of components. What is different/absent is the
(Linux) kernel, filesystems, drivers, etc., and the administration stuff
for *those* components. So no, indeed not "Linux", but "Linux-like".

And no, it can *not* be called "UNIX like", because "UNIX" is a *brand
name* for certain (de jure) standard-conformant systems and Cygwin (and
Linux) do *not* conform to those standards and hence can not (read: are
not allowed to) be called "UNIX" or "UNIX like". Likewise for "BSD like"
(BSD is not a de-jure standard, but is a de facto standard which is
*different than* and *incompatible* with "Linux" (and "UNIX").

(Anyone) Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

We can have sematic arguments all day and none of us will be 100% right as
IMO, Cygwins own description is misleading. Without a kernal you can call
it whatever you like and be right to some degree.

Agreed! :-)

Thanks for sharing your viewpoints.
.

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