making fun of atheists (was: Re: Pro-Plato Pope Peeps )

making fun of atheists

(was: Re: Pro-Plato Pope Peeps )
(was: Re: hysterical historical challenge!)

NOTE: i've taken the poet license liberty of posting this reply back
into in the most appropriate thread.

why you ask?

for the poetically licensed challenged, here is my "reasoning":

1. obviously, Sylvia's been doing lots of pope research

2. Sylvia didn't meet the "hysterical historical challenge"

but, most importantly,

um...

3. by default, Sylvia's new thread makes fun of atheists

and brilliantly so.

On Feb 3, 2:13 am, Sylvia <syl...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"$Zero" <zeroi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<...>

the same kind of "real" that people use to comfort
themselves that Plato actually existed.

Oh, dear... talk about historically challenged...

who, moi?

LOL

i've never claimed to be any kind of historian.

just a former atheist smartass.


What is it with the Christians who rant in MW not knowing
their own religion's history?

1a. i'm not ranting.

1b that'd be Alan.

2a. i don't have a religion, sorry.

2b. i'm no more a Christian than i am a
Buddhist, or a Jew, or a Hindu, or a Muslim,
or a Flying Spaghetti Monsterist

(or a Sasquatchist)

3a. i'm not an atheist

3b. i have faith in the truth


haven't you been following the Sasquatch/Jesus/Socrates arguments?

Zero, perhaps you should follow the trail to see who was a heavy influence on
the people who wrote the New Testament and other Christian doctrine.

so the answer is:

no, you haven't been following the Sasquatch/Jesus/Socrates arguments.

Zero, perhaps you should follow the trail to see who was a heavy influence on
the people who wrote the New Testament and other Christian doctrine.

Guess who'll you find? Come on! Guess!

some fictional Jesus dude?

PLATO.

gasp.

i'm shocked!

is this where i issue my FAUS?

(full and unconditional surrender)

Who sez? Yer pope sez!

is the man you cite the very first non-fictional pope?

"Reading the learned writings of Augustine of Hippo and Dionysius the
Areopagite, we see that Christian theology and mysticism drew elements from
the dialogue with Platonic philosophy. Writers like Gregory of Nazianzus,
steeped in Greek rhetoric, were able to create a Christian literature worthy
of its classical antecedents."

-- Pope John Paul II (Vatican document) [1]

"It is clear from history, then, that Christian thinkers were critical
in adopting philosophical thought. Among the early examples of this, Origen is
certainly outstanding. In countering the attacks launched by the philosopher
Celsus, Origen adopts Platonic philosophy to shape his argument and mount his
reply. Assuming many elements of Platonic thought, he begins to construct an
early form of Christian theology."

-- Pope John Paul II (Vatican document) [2]

see, people like Hope and Ashby
<...>
somehow also claim that there _is_ credible historical
evidence that the man known as Socrates actually existed.

note the "also" there.

check the snippage for context.


<...>

I *cited* several credible sources of historical evidence for the existence
of Socrates.

what makes them credible sources?

(he said like Socrates himself)


Guess who else besides them *does* agree with Mr. Hope,
Mr. Ashby and me about the existence of Socrates?

the historical Jesus?

Come on! Guess! Another one of yer popes!

um, i think you can safely call them one of yer popes, now.

or, perhaps you'd like to fully retract your enthusiasm, because, by
your twisted logic, if a pope said it, it must therefore be fictional!

poof!


"We refer to that ancient union, free from discord, by which Greeks and
Latins were held together for their mutual profit when that part of the earth
which had produced Socrates and Plato often provided the Supreme Pontiffs."

-- POPE LEO XIII (Vatican document) [3]

Since 1907, The Catholic Encyclopedia has been a "credible" source for
*Catholic beliefs*... guess who else agrees with Mr. Hope, Mr. Ashby and me
about the existence of Socrates? Come on! Guess! [Hint: The Popes are
Catholic.]

BTW: are you somehow claiming that any of these non-fictional popes of
yours are somehow saying that there's no historical Jesus?

poof!

"All these interests, however, were absorbed in the pursuit of wisdom to
which, under the guidance of Socrates, he ardently devoted himself. After the
death of Socrates he joined a group of the Socratic disciples gathered at
Megara [...] "

-- The Catholic Encyclopedia, "Plato and Platonism" [4]

And, guess what The Catholic Encyclopedia sez about Plato and Christianity?
Come on! Guess!

let me guess, The Catholic Encyclopedia says that Plato and
Christianity are not inherently incompatible as independent entities
in the known universe?

am i close?

"There can, however, be no doubt that in Italy [Plato] studied the
doctrines of the Pythagoreans. [...]

[NOTE: "No doubt" he existed!]

uh oh.

FAUS can't be far behind.

"Nevertheless, the great majority of the Christian philosophers down to
St. Augustine were Platonists."

i'll bet you that the great majority of Christian philosophers also
obeyed the laws of gravity.

what say you?



-- The Catholic Encyclopedia, "Plato and Platonism" [4]

"all you have to do now is figure out why you so gullibly endorse
the existence of Socrates, Plato, Buddha, and so forth [...]"

-- Zero insults peeps who endorse the
existence of Socrates, Plato and Buddha.

insults?

get out.


Endorses the existence of Socrates:

"[...] which separates this God from all other divinities with their
many names and simply asserts being, "I am", already presents a challenge to
the notion of myth, to which Socrates' attempt to vanquish and transcend myth
stands in close analogy."

-- Pope BENEDICT XVI (Vatican document) [5]

Endorses the existence of Plato:

"It is absent from the speculations of the ancient philosophers, even
the greatest, such as Plato and Aristotle, [...]"

-- Pope John Paul II (Vatican document) [6]

Endorses the existence of Buddha:

"Great scholars recognize his spiritual and moral stature and his
influence on human history, comparing him to Buddha, Confucius, Socrates and
other wise and important historical figures."

-- Pope BENEDICT XVI (Vatican document) [7]

gee, i'll bet there's not a single "Platoist" who endorses the
existence of Jesus, huh?

probably not.

what an absurd thought, right?

a totally ridiculous proposition, no?

give it a little research and see what you come up with.

keyword "scientists" and "believers", etc.

or be creative and use your own search terms.

Zero, you are *so* gonna be ex-communicated and then
BURN in the EVERLASTING FIRES of HELL.

well, at least your illogic is consistently illogical.

bwah.

indeed.

anyway, thanks for your wonderful post and for making such fun of
yourself like that.

it was quite enjoyable and refreshing.

--
Sylvia <--- Thy Supreme Ruler

"For MIZ SYLVIA thy SUPREME RULER is a consuming fire,
an Irresistible Read, you cannot rEsiST thE URgE."

-- Sir Harvey 4:24

[1] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2001/document...
_spe_20010504_president-greece_en.html#top

[2] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/...
nc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html

[3] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l...
20111901_urbanitatis-veteris_en.html

[4] http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12159a.htm

[5] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/septembe...
s/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

[6] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/a...
en.html

[7] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2007/document...
vi_hom_20070629_pallio_en.html

ooo, lots of methodically researched cites, too.

cool.

none that include the first non-fictional pope (and so definitely not
up to the high logical standards of the hysterical historical
challenge) but at least you've begun to search for one.

maybe it would be easier if you started with Simon Peter and worked
your way forward?

nah, it would take you just as much time either way.

enjoy the journey.

it's a zen thinger.

....

it's a truth thinger.

....

-$Zero...

AHope: When are you going to respond to my questions about
Simon Peter's account of the life of Jesus? I'm
dying to know about it, since it doesn't exist
anywhere I've looked.


$Zero: Gospel of Mark, i think.


AHope: The gospel of Mark is Simon Peter's account?
How do you figure that?


$Zero: AUTHOR: Mark
PLACE: Rome
DATE: AD 60-65

CONTENT: John Mark was a companion to the Apostle Paul.
He finally settled in Rome where he wrote the remembrances
of the Apostle Peter. Thus Mark's gospel reflects the words
of an eye-witness to the events he describes. [...]

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.writing/msg/b7941a053e841c4c


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