Re: Web Animation and Sound Advice Sought

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. "Lily"
<lily@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> led the charge, yelling:

$Zero wrote:
Dr Zen wrote:

"$Zero" <zero@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> led the charge, yelling:
Dr Zen wrote:
"$Zero" <zero@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> led the charge, yelling:
Dr Zen wrote:
"$Zero" <zero@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> led the charge, yelling:

Web Animation and Sound Advice Sought

anyone here got any tips on adding animation and
sound to your website?

<BGSOUND SRC="sound/lespapillons.mid" LOOP="infinite">or put a number after
loop for how many times you want the file to play. only works in IE, though.


For sounds, yes.

you can hear it at http://ajartworks.com/home.html

there's a way to do it so that it works in netscape and mozilla browsers,
but i can't remember. i think it's an embed tag. this site looks like it has
possibilities: http://www.porjes.com/idocs/embeddedobjects/_EMBED.html

This is all the old way. The new way works for all browsers.

also, try searching at http://webmonkey.com/ they have some great tutorials
and scripts that you can just grab. i used to depend on the site back in the
days when i was first learning all this stuff.

Webmonkey is excellent.




i'm looking for the simplest way possible.

using raw HTML coding (windows notepad-generated).

Do you know any DHTML?

not yet. just basic HTML.

No JS at all?

JS = Java Script?

Yeah.

Jah.

javascript's only bad if you're determined to learn it and do it all
yourself from the ground up.

Yes. But you have to be able to understand it to be able to adapt
readymades.

go search for a script that's already written.
after looking through a few of them, you'll get the idea and be able to
tweak them for your needs if necessary. at least for what it is you're
looking for. it doesn't sound too complex.


No, it isn't. He could use a variation on the script I use to change
quotes on my site.


nope. not yet.

Sal gave me some links awhile back, but i haven't had a
chance to look into them yet.

Do it. You can't make what you want without it.

I challenge you on that assertion, but... nevertheless...


it really helps to read through a few tutorials.

He can read what he likes, but he can't do a slideshow without some
sort of scripting.




You need some JS to do what you're after, I think.

what's the usual learning curve with Java Script?

Steep.

Steep.


a couple days? i'm a quick study, mind you.

The basics, maybe.

Well, that applies to almost anything. Do you think that someone of
my vast Unicornian intelligence could learn what I need to know in
order to create an animation with a sound file in a couple of days?
My guess is yes, since I checked out some sites last night
demonstrating how to make swf files, of course they were using some
prepackaged software, but...still.

swf files are flash files. you cannot learn flash in 2 days. trust me on
this. there are programs, like swish, that create readymade flash effects,
though.

You have to pay money for it?

He could learn the JS in a couple of days if he knows VB or something
similar.



especially with software/programming stuff.

Do you know any scripting languages? Visual Basic?

Yes. I know something very similar to Visual Basic.


i handcode in microsoft notepad text files.

Yes, so do I.

i'm sure there's some cool advantages to using suff like
adobe pro-live and whatnot, but i like keeping things simple.

You would only have to check it if you used a program.

True. But I don't feel like committing to a program just yet. I've
been down that route. You get locked in and then you find that you're
locked into a fricken' nightmare. All that time spent probing the
depths of the program's capacity (years and yeqars) only to discover a
few years down the road that the company who makes it are losers and
nitwits.

dreamweaver is good. and you can still handcode using it if you prefer. i'm
too visual. i prefer the drag and drop method, though i've learned that it's
still necessary to know the code.

That's what I'm saying. It's fine to use Dreamweaver but you need to
check it anyway.



OTOH, I've had just the opposite experience as well. I'm just not in
the mood to flip that coin right now, unless I have to. Of course,
it'd be easier to make that choice if all the techies around here were
a bit more generous with their recommendations, but, then this
wouldn't be mw, would it?

i have a brandnew copy of Frontpage still shrinkwrapped in the
box, but i'd rather build things from the ground up. it helps
my creativity develop.

do not EVER use frontpage. EVER. the code is a nightmare. what you can do
with one page of html takes frontpage 3 pages.

Frontpage writes code like someone who learned it last week.




It's up to you how you do it but without JS, you're not going
to do it.

i seem to remember some sort of "flash" option in the early HTML
stuff, years ago.

Learning flash would be harder than learning JS.

I'm thinking the old HTML feature that I was thinking about was called
"blink", not "flash". Are you talking about flash macromedia or some
such?

i think the blink tag only worked with text, though, didn't it?

I've explained that to him.



it'd be hard to imagine that there's no way to do it without java.

Java's different.

How so? And who sells a good interface for it?

java is a programming language. well, i guess they all are, but it's
different than javascript.

*Very* different. And there's a big difference between what you might
call a "programming" language and a "scripting" language.




But maybe. I haven't kept up with that stuff.

You cannot do it without JS.

Bzzzt. But I don't doubt that Java is a good way to go.

i don't know if this is the kind of thing you're looking for.

http://www.barelyfitz.com/projects/slideshow/

i once found a slideshow player that was simple that didn't involve
javascript, but you had to move through the images with forward and backward
controls. i think what it did was create actual html pages the size of the
image, with the controls in a bottom frame. but i can't find it now. i'm
sure it's archived on one of my disks, but i wouldn't know where to start
looking to find it. i don't think that's quite what you're looking for,
though.

God no. He just needs to create an array and iterate through it.



i was considering buying Dreamweaver, etc., but right now i
just want to handcode it all.

here's what i'm trying to accomplish:

upon someone landing on my website, i want to:

1] automatically toggle a few jpegs

Easy.

i would assume so. but what are the tags for it?

There aren't any. You'll have to use JS.

Maybe. It's probably more efficient, I'd imagine.

No. It's simply impossible to do what you want using plain HTML.

Not impossible, just very awkward. For the enduser, especially.

i really don't think you can do it so that the pictures switch out
automatically. you have to have some kind of script running it. flash uses a
script for things like that as well. actionscript.

It's impossible, period.




can i get them at w3schools.com? probably.

but which ones would YOU recommend?

Have a look at the code for my blog. It picks quotes. You'd use
similar code for a slideshow of images.

ok.

php is also a possibility, which is what my blog uses for quotes, but that's
another steep learning curve and your server has to be set up to run it.

I don't think PHP would be a good option. It's far the easiest to just
do it in JS.

that's what makes javascript so useful-it's read by the browser so can be
run on any website.


Do you mean pick one at random or go through a slideshow
type thing. Either way, it's easy enough.

slideshow.

though naturally, i'd like to know the other as well.

2] have a sound file play in the background

Easy. But fucking annoying. Don't do it.

[why was it] annoying?

Because anything that makes a noise or flashes is annoying on
a website. Music is particularly annoying. If you insist,
include a highly visible way of switching it off. Personally,
I immediately *** off any website that makes uninvited music
at me.

Oh, I see what you're saying. me too.

Well then!

Well, my sound wqasn't going to obnoxious or anything, so I didn't
even consider that dynamic, but still, it would be the polite way to
go, I suppose. Like for browsers who had their volume cranked up all
the way and didn't realize it. They'd blame me.

Yeah, I'll probably put a launch animation/.mov button.

anyway, this is for a multimedia type presentation.

audio is a good thing in that circumstance.

Not if it's unbidden.

Agreed. I rememeber Josh using an annoying link like that once.

Josh is annoying enough without music.

He never really annoyed me until that one link. It was rude and
obnoxious. His writing is just exhausting sometimes. In which case,
I'd just skim it quickly, if at all. But he is pretty bright, despite
himself.


automatically, as soon as someone lands on the site.

also, i'd like to use very low resource-hog ways to do
this in order to be compatible with as many browsers/
users as possible. unless, are broadband connections
the only feasible way for soundfiles?

Not if the soundfiles are very low fi.

how low? what frequency range? like telephone quality?

Very low. It's not to do with frequency but to do with sample
quality.

Right. The word escaped me. Like how you can choose which
sampling quality you want when you burn your CDs into mp3 files.

Yes, exactly.

Which is pretty similar effect-wise to limiting the frequency range.

No, it fucking well is not.


creating compressed sound files does require some kind of software.

Yes, but it's not a complex task.

there
are some free programs that can convert to what you need, but they're
limiting. i tried out a few, but was relieved when i was able to purchase
adobe audition at work. i'm not so well-versed in sound creation. i've used
audition to edit and create sound effects, but it's all trial and error, and
i really don't know why i'm doing what i'm doing when i mess around with the
controls. i just know i'm getting the effects i want. it's like using the
histograms in photoshop. they're total gibberish to me, but sometimes i can
make them work to my advantage.


There are plenty of sound editors available that can do what he wants.

As low as possible so that the resulting file is very small.

A simple melody with a voiceover. No need for high fi.

A midi file might do it.

Are midi files pretty much universally readable? I have a few
midi-generating programs laying around.

yes, midi files are universal. do you want that tinny sound they create,
though?

They are very low-fi, Arleen. That's essential for dialup.

to do a voiceover you need a program that can hold 2 tracks, i
believe.


Why would that be a problem? I daresay the sequencing programs I use
could output to midi, if I really wanted them to.



that'd be fine.

yes, i know, research it myself. i am.

i'm just looking for a few tips from anyone here who
already has some experience in it.

i'm entering a contest with prize money, etc. so,
anyone who wants to go partners with me is welcome
to come aboard for all the fun (and possible splitting
of any prizes) -- or you can just offer me a few tips
just for the heck of it, because you're so generous
and helpful and whatnot.

i have a really neat idea for this thinger.

-$Zero... SoThanksInAdvance... ForAnyUsefulTipsYouMightHave...

You need to be a bit clearer about what you want.

see above. and thanks.

i'm entering the HuffPo contest.

http://cf.huffingtonpost.com/

Yeah, look, I can't be bothered reading that.

It's not novel length or anything.

Can you tell me what you're trying to do in a couple of sentences?

Make people laugh. and think. Win a creativity contest.

And promote my new website business while doing so.

Well, good luck to you.

Thanks.

Of course, not knowing how to do JS is really
going to put a crimp in your website prospects.

No. I could always delegate it. But I like the hands-on approach.

Anyway, not everybody has Java fully enabled on their browsers -- I
don't -- on several of my computers.

Regardless, Java is not a prerequisite for web-project success by any
means.


again, java and javascript are 2 different languages.

This is why bothering to discuss things like this with someone like
Zero is almost pointless. I've already told him Java and JS are not
the same thing.

java requires a
computer download from sun microsystems unless it's already bundled with
your operating software. javascript is like html-it's code for the browser
to read.

Java is a fucking nightmare for all concerned, which you have to do a
long d/l to use. JS will work in any browser whose owner hasn't
switched it off, which is most.
--

Dr Zen

I am kind enough to forget
injured pride, harsh words,
stupid things and remember
that we only have each other
between here and the void.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
.