Re: The Brilliance of Moving US Manufacturing Jobs to China

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:59:39 +1000, Dr Zen <longhornster@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>With no regard for personal safety or the comfort of others, the Great
>"Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@xxxxxxxxx> blathered:
>
>>
>>Dr Zen wrote:
>>> With no regard for personal safety or the comfort of others, the Great
>>> "Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@xxxxxxxxx> blathered:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Dr Zen wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Rephrasing: maximum wage bad, yes? For Chinese or Americans.
>>> >>
>>> >> Undervaluing labour is not a bad thing if you have capital.
>>> >
>>> >Sure it is. Undervaluing labour screws _different_ capitalists and
>>> >workers than overvaluing labor does, but that's just a detail.
>>> >
>>>
>>> That's bullshit. It doesn't hurt the person doing the undervaluing and
>>> that's what counts.
>>
>>A wage cap drastically reduces the productivity of high-wage workers.
>
>Prove it.
>
>High-wage workers don't actually do any producing, dude.

That's rubbish.

>What planet
>are you living on?

One in which high wage workers frequently, although not always, work
harder and produce greater value than their low-wage counterparts.

>>A minimum wage drastically reduces the productivity of low-wage
>>workers.
>
>Productivity per dollar?
>
>If that's what you're saying, we should maybe consider not paying the
>slaves at all?
>
>>Either way, the effect on capitalists is just like bombing their widget
>>supplier. It certainly does hurt them when they have invested assuming
>>they will be able to get the inputs they need for their business.
>
>A cap on high wages would not affect capitalists. It would affect
>people who are paid obscene amounts of money for doing not much of
>consequence.

Along with those who get paid obscene amounts of money for doing
things that /are/ of consequence.

>You seem to be complaining that the minimum wage lessens exploitation.
>I don't sympathise. I just say tough shit, Gradgrind.

You're both right and you're both wrong.

I find it interesting, BTW, that you're all in favor of the minimum
wage but consider Americans big ugly mean and selfish for wanting to
protect their workers from countries that don't observe it.

>>> >> Would you like to explain why a maximum wage is a bad thing? I don't
>>> >> think it is at all. But I'd like you to try a cogent, short answer why
>>> >> you think it is. If it involves the word "incentive", you're out of
>>> >> the game though.
>>> >
>>> >A maximum wage is bad because higher wages are good.
>>>
>>> Why? They're "good" in what sense?
>>
>>good -> Higher wages are better than lower wages.
>
>Good for whom?
>
>It's not good for me if my boss earns twice what he did last week.

Depends on whether he earns it, doesn't it.
>>
>>>
>>> >A minimum wage is bad because being employed is good.
>>>
>>> That doesn't even begin to follow. Being employed at less than a
>>> certain wage is not good.
>>
>>good -> Being employed is better than not being employed.
>
>Tell it to Kunta Kinte, idiot.

Ah. So I take it you're in favor of banning trade with countries like
India and Pakistan that practice slavery?

Didn't think so. With you, it's poor country can do no wrong, rich
country evil. It's an ideological rather than a rational thing.

--
Josh

"Reade him, therefore; and againe, and againe: And if then you doe not like him,
surely you are in some manifest danger, not to understand him." - Heminge and Condell
.

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