Re: How did you come to believe what you believe? (was Re: Predestination) (was Poor people)

It was a dark and stormy night in misc.writing. Suddenly, a shot
rang out! 'AUUUGGGH!' "chris_tine49@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<chris.editrix@xxxxxxxxx> screamed. '...


>
> gekko wrote:
>> It was a dark and stormy night in misc.writing. Suddenly, a shot
>> rang out! 'AUUUGGGH!' "Steve Pritchard"
>> <Steve_Pritchard@xxxxxxxxxxxx> screamed. '...
>>
>>
>> > "chris_tine49@xxxxxxxxxxx" <chris.editrix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>> > message
>> > news:1133676131.464869.232920@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> The question was how did you come to believe what you believe,
>> >> whatever
>> >> it is.
>> >
>> > Can't answer for Zen, but mine is simply through experience.
>> > I've never needed faith/religion and discussions with those who
>> > have it present me with many more questions and doubts than
>> > answers and conviction.
>> >
>> > If faith's your thing, then good for you. It's just not mine.
>>
>> The interesting thing about Chris's question is how it is
>> understood by those who answer it.
>
> Yes.

You'd asked, earlier, about pivotal moments. I answered shortly.
There was no road to Damascus. But there were some mini-epiphanies
that are still etched, etched I say! into my memory that helped light
my way.

One came when I was about 16 years old. Another a short time after
that. Then about 6-7 years ago another series of ... insights ...
came to me.

Interestingly, I started to form ideas. Then I started reading
opinions, words that suddenly gave those ideas more coherent shape,
and the words I read resonated. I'd had no idea others had already
gone this route, but when I saw them, I felt instant familiarity and
felt the rightness of the words.


>> See, I did not see Chris asking if you have a religious faith or
>> need one, yet you answered that as though she had.
>>
>> So you do not have a religious faith, per se, yet you came to
>> believe *something*. That something, you got through
>> "experience" yet in the next sentence you pooh-pooh the
>> "experience" derived from interacting with others.
>
>> Also interesting, but not related: someone close to me has
>> reached a point in life where they are questioning the faith
>> system in which they were raised. They are seeking answers, on
>> their own. What is fascinating me is that this person is pretty
>> much following the same path I trod a while back, and reaching
>> toward the same place I am presently in, belief-wise, faith-wise,
>> spirituality-wise.
>>
>> There _are_ too many conflicts and questions in the established,
>> orthodox forms of the religions in which many of us were raised.
>>
>> Ditto the political ideologies espoused by many.
>
> So how do you function with grace and stay "in the fold," if
> that's what you've done?

"The fold" is the community. The community is other people, and
without other people, we would wither and die. I see no significant
conflict between my belief and theirs.

I think it's like a tree. They hang heavy, glittery ornaments on it,
and spray it with fake pine scent. They make up rules on how we are
to view it, or decorate it.

I like the glitter of snow that's fallen amid its branches

Beneath, it's still the same tree.


> I've particularly not understood the many Catholics I know who
> struggle with those problems, with well-publicized corruption, and
> yet maintain the strength to work from within, especially with the
> glacial rate of change.
>
> But things are warming up: maybe the thaw will come sooner now.

See. That's Earthly. That's politics. That's people. You deal
with them _as_ people. Your faith, though -- your beliefs -- they
belong to you as God (or The Great Monkeypoo, or wotever) has
revealed them.

Thus sayeth the Lizard.

--
gekko

No grain in the silo.
.

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