Re: Oil-pipeline shutdown in Alaska to choke flow

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"gringo" <gringo@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:rRaCg.4520$qd.243@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"gringo" <gringo@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:_lSBg.9450$bo6.2274@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Along with cheap nuclear energy, you get tons of nuclear waste that
outlasts the containers it is stored in by about 20,000 years. we're
running out of places to store the radioactive ***.

Currently about 50% of the electricity in the US is generated by
burning
coal.
Would you like to show how smart you are and tell us how much
"radioactive
***" is released into the atmosphere and into the slag piles every
year?
Also burning of coal pumps lots of greenhouse gasses into the
atmosphere.
Would you care to estimate how much is produced each year from this
practice?



didn't say there were many alternatives to nuclear. *All* are superior,
however.
Coal emissions eventually settle to Earth, where they do little harm.
All lifeforms forms on this planet are comprised of carbon. All
lifeforms on this planet are also comprised of atoms.
=============Begin quote=========================
For the year 1982, assuming coal contains uranium and thorium concentrations
of 1.3 ppm and 3.2 ppm, respectively, each typical plant released 5.2 tons
of uranium (containing 74 pounds of uranium-235) and 12.8 tons of thorium
that year. Total U.S. releases in 1982 (from 154 typical plants) amounted to
801 tons of uranium (containing 11,371 pounds of uranium-235) and 1971 tons
of thorium. http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html

=================End quote========================

801 tons of urranium and 12.8 tons of thorium released from coal plants in
1982 alone. There is also many other nasty hazards like murcury.



Splitting an atom
is fucking around with the very fabric of life.

The report goes on to disclose that once released into the atmosphere the
atoms split all on their own.

=================begin quote=========================
Another unrecognized problem is the gradual production of plutonium-239
through the exposure of uranium-238 in coal waste to neutrons from the air.
These neutrons are produced primarily by bombardment of oxygen and nitrogen
nuclei in the atmosphere by cosmic rays and from spontaneous fission of
natural isotopes in soil.
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html
===================end quote==========================



Are you claiming this is equivalent to the poisonous wastes released by nuclear fission? Water used to cool reactors remains deadly about a thousand years longer than the metal drums used to store it. An explosion at a nuclear power plant could make the area for hundreds of miles surrounding it*uninhabitable* for hundreds of years. An explosion of a coal plant would kill only those in its immediate vicinity.

Another Chernobyl anyone?

Checkmate.


*Radioactive wastes come in many different forms including the
following: *

* protective clothing of people in contact with radioactive materials
* the remains of lab animals used in experiments with radionuclides
* cooling water, used fuel rods, and old tools and parts from
nuclear power plants
* mill tailings from uranium-enrichment factories
* old medical radiation equipment from hospitals and clinics
* used smoke detectors which contain radioactive americium-241 sensors


*Types of nuclear waste*


High-level waste

Nuclear waste is divided into several categories. */High-level/
waste* consists mostly of spent nuclear reactor fuel from both
commerical power plants and military facilities, as well as
reprocessed materials which can emit large amounts of radiation
for hundreds of thousands of years. Commercial nuclear power
plants in the U.S. alone produce 3,000 tons of high-level waste
each year. The amount of spent fuel removed annually from the
approximately 100 reactors in the U.S. would fill a football field
to a depth of one foot. When spent fuel is removed from a reactor
core, it still emits millions of *rems* of radiation. For more
information on units of measurement (such as the rem), see the
radiation effects page
<http://library.thinkquest.org/3471/radiation_effects_body.html>.

In the absence of high-level waste repositories, nuclear power
plants genearlly store their spent fuel rods in lead-lined
conceete pools of water. These pools somewhat contain the spread
of gamma radiation by keeping the rods relatively cool. They also
help prevent fission. The average commercial power plant puts 60
used assemblies into temporary storage each year and will probably
continue to do so until the year 2000, when responsibility for
spent fuel will be transferred to the Department of Energy. Space
is running out at many plants though. The plants have another
option of storing their spent fuel at other plants still under
construction. It is theoretically possible to reduce the amount of
storage space that spent fuel rods require by removing them from
their assemblies, bundling them tightly, and then packing them
into heavily shielded dry storage, but repacking these highly
radioactive rods may present too much of a challenge.

For long-term storage of high-level waste, a waterproof,
geologically stable repository and leak-proof waste container is
required. Packaging has to be tailored to the volume of the waste,
the actual radioactive *isotopes* of elements it contains, how
radioactive it is, its isotopes' half-lives, and how much heat it
still generates. One technique for packaging high-level wastes
involves melting them with glass and pouring the molten material
into impermeable containers. The containers could be buried in
soil or in a rock pile and surrounded by fill material and a
barrier wall. From the 1940s through the 1960s, barrels of
radioactive waste were frequently dumped in oceans. This ended in
1970 when the EPA (Energy Protection Agency) determined that at
least one-fourth of these barrels were leaking. A new, possibly
safer proposal under consideration for long-term ocean storage
includes offshore drilling and a procedure known as self-burial.
In offshore drilling, holes would be drilled into the seabed and
filled with barrels of waste. In self-burial, specially shaped
barrels would be dumped and left to sink to the ocean floor.

Geologic disposal is currently the most popular solution for waste
disposal. During the 1980s, the U.S. government invested more than
$2 billion into geologic disposal. In this form of disposal, mined
tunnels with deep holes for waste canisters would be built using
conventional mining techniques. Monitoring and waste retrieval
would be relatively easy. In 1987, a site was chosen for the first
permanent high-level commercial nuclear waste storage repository
in the United States--Yucca Mountain, 100 miles northwest of
Las Vegas, Nevada. Expected to cost up to $15 billion, this
repository is scheduled to go into operation by the year 2010.

Over the years, a number of other ideas for high-level waste
disposal have been proposed and, at least temporarily, abandoned.
One was disposal in space, in which sealed containers of
radioactive material would be sent up into distant orbits. This
would be an expensive and risky operation, as problems on the
launchpad or in space could expose the earth and atmostphere to an
enormous amount of radiation. Another suggestion was burying waste
under the Antarctic ice sheets. However, this would risk
irradiating that area and the surrounding sea. A much safer idea,
which would render disposal unnecessary, is to bombard radioactive
waste with subatomic particles to transform it into less harmful
isotopes. Unfortunately, this attractive proposal awaits still
unrealized technology.


Mill Tailings

Mill tailings, left over when ore is refined and processed is the
largest by volume of any form of radioactive waste. Only 1% of
uranium ore contains uranium--the rest is left on-site as sandlike
residue. These tailings are generally left outdoors in huge piles,
where they blow around, releasing radioactive materials into the
surrounding air and water. By 1989, some 140 million tons of mill
tailings had accumulated in the United States alone, with 10 to 15
million tons added each year. Although their radiation is
generally less concentrated than other types of waste, some of the
isotopes in these tailings are long-lived and can be hazardous for
many thousands of years.

Until their radioactive risk was known, mill tailings were
sometimes used as foundation and building materials, especially in
western states. When their risk was discovered, these materials in
the buildings had to be monitored. These monitored sites are
generally safer, although some groundwater contamination still
occurs at them. It has been recommended that tailings be stored
underground in clay pits, far from population centers.


Low-Level Waste

*/Low-level/ wastes* are usually defined in terms of what they are
not. They are not spent fuel, milling tailings, reprocessed
materials, or transuranic materials. Low-level waste includes the
remainder of radioactive wastes and materials generated in power
plants, such as contaminated reactor water, plus those wastes
created in medical laboratories, hospitals, and industry. Wastes
in this category usually, although not always, release smaller
amounts of radiation for a shorter amount of time. "Low level"
/does not/ mean "not dangerous," though. Although its
radioactivity is usually less concentrated than that of high-level
waste, low-level waste can be dangerous for up to tens of
thousands of years.

Most low-level wastes come from reactors. These wastes can be
divided up into two categories:

o *Fuel wastes* are fission products that leak out of fuel
rods and into cooling water.
o *Nonfuel wastes* result when stray neutrons bombard anything
in the core other than fuel--such as the reactor vessel
itself--and cause them to become radioactive.

The remainder of low-level wastes comes from industry and
institutional sources, including pharmaceutical plants,
universities, and medical facilities. Instead of going to
low-level waste dumps, these wastes are often kept on-site for the
short time it takes for them to decay to safe levels. Then they
are deposited into sanitary landsfills. However, it is likely that
liquid wastes are literally poured down the drain, whether or not
they are still radioactive.

Low-level waste landfills were first built in the 1960s. In
near-surface land burial, containers of waste fill a trench and
are covered and surrounded by compacted earth. There are currently
a few burial grounds in the U.S. to which most commercial
low-level waste materials emitting detectable amounts of radiation
are sent. A few other landfills are currenly inactive due to
severe waste-containment problems and radioactive leakage. Waste
containers in near-surface landfills are prone to corrosion,
particularly in moist climates. Landfills provide a false sense of
comfort because they are "out of sight, out of mind." More
worthwhile alternatives include above-ground landfills and to
store waste at existing nuclear plant sites.

There are a number of unresolved issues regarding disposal of
low-level wastes. The current institution control period (the
amount of time a waste site must remain under guard after it has
been filled and closed) is only 100 years. Yet the hazards
presented by some low-level wastes can continue for /thousands/ of
years. What will keep future generations from uncovering and being
contaminated by these substances?





Back in the '60s I took a trip to my sister's home in Charleston, WV.
The chemical's pumped into the atmosphere burned eyes and seared
lungs--and it stank to high heaven. When Johnson's EPA ordered the
plants to clean up their act, they screamed to heaven that they'd be put
out of business.
============begin quote============================
Born in the wake of elevated concern about environmental pollution, the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency opened its doors in downtown Washington,
D.C., on December 2, 1970. http://epa.gov/35thanniversary/
=============end quote=============================

Johnson was not President then, Nixon was. The EPA was an agency he was
responsible for creating. Read a little history. Read a little science.


....
As President, Johnson spoke of the environment as early as his first State of the Union Message on January 4, 1965, proposing that "we increase the beauty of America and end the poisoning of our rivers and the air that we breathe."
....
He acted on his promises.

Not claiming that Nixon had a bad record on the environment. Compared to Reagan and the two Shrubs, Nixon was a Liberal. And he was backed up by a Democratic, Liberal Congress and a Liberal Supreme Court.

When Reagan took office, he systematically went about pulling the teeth of environmentalists, a practice continued by the two Shrubs, George and George.


......

And just what does any of this have to do with the discussion?

....

Nuclear energy has caused many disasters and is extremely dangerous. The nations of the world now have enough nuclear bombs to kill every person on Earth several times. Disasters such as Chernobyl and Three Mile Island clearly illustrate the catastrophic potential of nuclear reactors. The disaster at Russia's Ural mountains shows the destructive potential of nuclear waste. Even the damage to people caused by radiation isn't treatable with current medical technology. Even if nuclear energy is an effective source of energy, now is simply not the time to implement it.

The two strongest nations--Russia and the United States--have about 50,000 nuclear weapons between them. What if there were to be a nuclear war? Or what if nuclear weapons were launched by accident? Nuclear explosions produce nuclear radiation. The nuclear radiation harms the cells of the body which can make people sick or even kill them. Illness can strike people years after their exposure to nuclear radiation. Because more and more countries are obtaining nuclear weapons, the threat of a nuclear weapon being detonated has become so great as to be unbearable .

In 1979, the cooling system failed at the Three Mile Island nuclear reactor near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Radiation leaked, forcing tens of thousands of people to flee. The program was solved minutes before a total meltdown would have occured. Fortunately, there were no deaths. In 1986, a much worse disaster struck Russia's Chernobyl nuclear power plant. This time, a great deal of radiation leaked. Hundreds of thousands of people were exposed to the radiation. Several dozen died within a few days. In the future, thousands more may die of cancer caused by the radiation.

Nuclear reactors also have waste disposal problems. Reactors produce nuclear waste products, which emit dangerous radiation. Because they could kill people who touch them, even in future years, nuclear waste cannot be thrown away like ordinary garbage. Currently, many nuclear wastes are stored in special pools at the nuclear reactors. The United States plans to move its nuclear waste to a remote underground dump during the late 1990s. In 1957, at a dump site in Russia's Ural Mountains, several hundred miles from Moscow, buried nuclear wastes mysteriously exploded killing dozens of people.

Many of the victims in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Chernobyl died of diseases (particularly cancers) caused by radiation. There are /no// /known medical technique to determine the amount of radiation a person has been exposed to. In addition, there are only replacement techniques available to treat these cancers. For example, lukemia (cancer of the blood) can only be "cured" with a bone marrow transplant to replenish the body's supply of white blood cells. At a major disaster such as Chernobyl, it would be impossible to get willing donors with specific blood types to all the thousands of cancer victims. With the threat of a nuclear meltdown and no relatively effective treatment technology available, the nations of the world cannot take the risk of having nuclear power plants.

....

The creation of huge quantities of long-lived radioactive waste is the most formidable problem facing the nuclear power industry today. The difficulty of waste disposal was not considered to be a big problem during the time when power plants were first introduced; it was assumed that waste could be recycled or buried. Unfortunately, finding safe ways of storing radioactive wastes so that they do not leak radiation into the environment has proved to be a much more difficult task than anticipated.


What is Radioactivity?


Radioactivity occurs when unstable nuclei of atoms decay and emit particles. These particles may have high energy and can have bad effects on living tissue. There are many types of radiation.
How does nuclear waste get to you?


The planet's water cycle is the main way radiation gets spread about the environment. When radioactive waste mixes with water, it is ferried through this water cycle. Radionuclides in water are absorbed by surrounding vegetation and ingested by local marine and animal life. Radiation can also be in the air and can get deposited on people, plants, animals, and soil. People can inhale or ingest radionuclides in air, drinking water, or food. Depending on the half life of the radiation, it could stay in a person for much longer than a lifetime. The half life is the amount of time it takes for a radioactive material to decay to one half of its original amount. Some materials have half-lives of more than 1,000 years!



What can we do about nuclear waste?

According to a report from the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, it will take 3 million years for radioactive waste stored in the United States as of 1983 to decay to background levels. So, presently, the only solution is to store the waste in a place so that the environment won't be contaminated. The problem with storing nuclear waste is both political as well as technological. In terms of politics, no one wants it stored near them. So there's much dispute as to where radioactive waste should be stored. In addition, storing so much waste is a major technological challenge. According to a report issued by the British Parliament, "In considering arrangements for dealing safely with such wastes, man is faced with time scales that transcend his experience."


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--
*fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. -- The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983



"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn."
------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999
.