Re: Have an Opinion? You're Violating the Law!

On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 18:02:37 -0600, "Usually Silent" <Eat@xxxxxxxx>
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:42:48 -0600, "Usually Silent" <Eat@xxxxxxxx>
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:08:03 -0600, "Usually Silent" <Eat@xxxxxxxx>
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:11:03 -0600, "Usually Silent" <Eat@xxxxxxxx>
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 13:35:47 -0600, "Usually Silent" <Eat@xxxxxxxx>
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 13:54:03 -0500, "George Conklin/Sociation
Today"
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"Sancho Panza" <otterpower@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On 2/12/2011 9:16 AM, George Conklin/Sociation Today wrote:
And having elected officials give a citizen-supported
study back to hostile staff is an invitation to destroy it. It
is
a
pure
conflict of interest. Elected officials know that they are
frequently lied
to by their own staffs, so when they ignore the advice they
are
given it
is not out of ignorance, but because they know the advice is
political, even
if it has an "engineering" stamp on it. Writing an article
about
mortality
patterns is not doing medicine without a license. Writing
about
traffic
patterns (by whatever label) is not practicing engineering
without
a
license. Predicing the future is not an engineering-only
undertaking.

Imagine if only educators were allowed to analyze and comment on
school
performance.

Maybe it should be -:)

We certainly have a lot of folks who appear to think that they
could
do
better than teachers, even though they have never taught a class.


So parents shouldn't have input into the education of their child?

It depends. Are the parents trying to impair the quality of the
education of their child? If they are, their opinion should be
completely ignored. Schools should not avoid teaching facts that
children need to learn just because their parents want them to
remain
ignorant about it.


Bullsh*t!!!!!!!!!!

If I want to teach my child the world is flat I should have that
right.

Why?


Because if it is what I believe and I want my child to believe it that
is
my
right as an American parent. Because schools should respect the right
of
the parent to have the child educated with information consistent with
their
parental values and beliefs, not undermining them.

Why should they support the falsehoods that the parents teach? I agree
that parents generally have the right to teach anything they want to
their kids as long as it doesn't cause harm to the kids, but I don't
believe that the parents have the right to force schools to join with
them in their conspiracy against knowledge. False beliefs need to be
undermined. Ignorance needs to be destroyed.

Okay what about parents that don't believe in the Pledge of Allegience?

What knowledge is contained in that pledge?

Irrelevant. You said schools schould wipe out ignorance. If a parent
doesn't want to respect the pledge is that being ignorant? Parents can
object to the pledge as something they don't believe being thrust upon their
children.

And they do object and the Supreme Court said they had the nearly empty
right to have their children not say it. Unfortunately, the foolish
addition of 'under God' during the '50s, when folks were afraid of reds
under every bed, is still there and children have to listen to that
version, even if they don't say the pledge themselves. That still has
nothing to do with what teachers are teaching. Saying the pledge is not
teaching.

Or the Constitution?

They have no right to expect their children to be protected from
knowledge about it.

Why not? Are you saying parents don't have the right to decide their own
method of parenting? Who are you to make that decision?

If parents do not want their children to be properly educated, they have
the right to inflict home schooling on them. They do not have the right
to force teachers to do a defective job of teaching.

Or parents that believe their child should have the
opportunity for silent meditation (not prayer) during classes.

Again, this has nothing to do with teaching accurate information about
the world.

The whole conversation has nothing to do with teaching accurate information
about the world. It has to do with who decides what is taught in
classrooms. School boards and educators are not the final word on knowledge
and beliefs.

Schools are not supposed to be teaching beliefs. They are supposed to be
imparting knowledge.

What about
Muslim parents that believe their child should be allowed to pray to Mecca
if the school is run by athiests?

What about them? Giving the child the opportunity to pray is not the
same as expecting the teachers to lead them in prayer.

But if someone doesn' believe in a deity they would consider praying tone
ignorant. Henace it should not be done to stop the spread of ignorance.

Teachers are not allowed to lead in prayer.

Are they going to say the parents belief
is ignorant and should be wiped out and over ruled?

I was quite specific about what teachers had the right to teach.

No you just said they should stop ignorance. What if a school believed that
everything you wanted taught your child in school was ignorant and shouldn'
be taught? Would you object?

The question has an objective answer. If the teacher is wrong, I would
object. If the teacher was correct, then I have no valid objection to
that teaching.

Should those parents beliefs be destroyed by the school and the
government?

This isn't about destroying beliefs. It's about teaching facts.

Who decides what the facts are. Ask Ward Churchill the "facts" about what
happened on 9-11. Ask OSB what the "facts" are ab out 9-11.

The facts take in a lot of history when it comes to how people try to
justify things, but the facts of what happened are quite clear.

Are you now going to judge what is ignorant and what isn't?

It's not that hard.

No it means you have a delusion that what you believe and what you know as
facs are 100% correct for you not to consider another position.

Facts are not interchangeable with opinion.

What gives schools and government that ultimate authority?

What gives parents the right to expect teachers to tell students
falsehoods because the parents want falsehoods taught?

Who said anything about falsehoods. What about alternative ways of thinking
and respect for other perspectives?

It depends on whether the other perspectives have any respect for facts.

Again I say BULLSH*T!!!

Abut what? Teaching falsehoods is indefensible.

So is believing that yours is the ony truth.

I wouldn't know. I'm satisfied with facts.
.

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