Re: Have an Opinion? You're Violating the Law!

Larry G <gross.larry@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Feb 12, 9:16 am, "George Conklin/Sociation Today"
<nilknoc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"John Lansford" <jlnsf...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:pimbl613hgnkc6n0h0p8s9keigf5kp80ck@xxxxxxxxxx

"George Conklin/Sociation Today" <nilknoc...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

  This is the engineering equivalent of a SLAPP suit.  A SLAPP suit
happens
when a developer sues someone for speaking their mind at a public hearing.
Now engineers are doing that.  Libertarians are sometimes right.

Nonsense. No one's telling the citizen to shut up; they are asking him
to provide who created the report, and whether that person is a
professional engineer or not. Engineering studies are required to be
created under the responsible care of a PE, and that person must
certify the document by signing/sealing it. Had he written a letter
stating his opinion and given the same data as the "study" did, there
would have been no issue here.

   John, what you post is simply nonsense.  Predicting future traffic flows
is not "engineering."  And having elected officials give a citizen-supported
study back to hostile staff is an invitation to destroy it.  It is a pure
conflict of interest.  Elected officials know that they are frequently lied
to by their own staffs, so when  they ignore the advice they are given  it
is not out of ignorance, but because they know the advice is political, even
if it has an "engineering" stamp on it.  Writing an article about mortality
patterns is not doing medicine without a license.  Writing about traffic
patterns (by whatever label) is not practicing engineering without a
license.  Predicing the future is not an engineering-only undertaking.

understanding how traffic warrants work is not an engineering only
endeavor either and if a clever citizens mimics the process in the
guise of PE-like study but never claims to be a PE - then they are
guilty of nothing.

Except for practicing engineering without a license, that is.

Only those who explicitly claim PE credentials and do not have them
are guilty of a violation.

No, that's a different violation.

citizens are allowed to make ANY COMMENTs they wish as the free speech
rights.

Sure, just don't call them a "traffic signal warrant study" and hand
them to the City Council with the expectation they will reverse their
earlier decision, that WAS based on an engineering study.

if the agency that "investigates" takes any action at all against a
citizen for comments that he made - they're going to end up in court
and slapped down very publically ... and possibly be subject to civil
damages for attempting to retaliate for a citizen expressing their
free speech rights.

Oh please. The Board will investigate and present their finding. If a
nonengineer created this 'study' and tried to misrepresent it as an
engineering study, the Board will not be able to do anything to him.
Their responsibility is only to LICENSED professionals. They could,
however, present their findings to the state District Attorney, and
request formal charges be brought against the nonengineer for
practicing engineering without a license. I've seen that happen time
and time again.

Now, if there was a licensed engineer who created the study, and did
not sign and/or seal it, then the Board does have the authority to
punish him, from just sending him a letter saying "don't do that
again" to fining him, up to removal of his license and banning him
from relicensing.

John's a pretty straight arrow ..99% on the time but IMHO he's totally
off the ranch on this ...

Nice to know you think that. Like I said, my opinion isn't dependent
on public opinion. I'll stand by what I've said on this issue.

John Lansford, PE
--
John's Shop of Wood
http://wood.jlansford.net/
.

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