Re: 15% ethanol as standard proposed

On Fri, 08 May 2009 19:57:58 -0400, Frog Breaches <@rar.bit> wrote:

richard wrote:
On Fri, 8 May 2009 14:21:19 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

The NYT reported that the EPA is considering making the standard fuel
15% ethanol. Many people object as this would cause serious problems.

For detailed article
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/automobiles/10ETHANOL.html?ref=automobiles


Big deal.
It's been fairly standard practice for several years to have 10%. I
rarely run across a pump that isn't.
About the only engines that would have a problem would be the older
model v-8's which ran mainly on leaded.

Last year I tried out some E25 in my safari and found that I got 24mpg
city or highway.

The only way to get rid of dependency on OPEC is to go to grain
alcohol engines.

Or even better, a network of electric powered "tow" roads.
Pull up to a terminal, pay for the usage, plug in your destination and
let the computer controlled driver do the work for you. While you sit
back and relax. No traffic jams, no accidents, less fuel wasted.

These "tow" roads could be installed right alongside the exisitng
interstate roads. Cruising along safely at a nice pace of say 100mph
with no worries of crashes. At that speed though, you'd want to put
the vehicle onto a small platform say like a flatbed railroad car but
shorter and with smaller wheels.

just for debate.
Grain Alcohol takes up increasing farm acreage. It drives up the price
of meat because they are fed grains and produce because it takes out of
production for them. It drives up imports and further drains our wealth.
Ethanol requires fertilizer, from oil, and a large expense of energy,
diesel etc to produce.
I've had all the injectors replaced, on one engine, because of water/
alcohol from name brand stations. I've had problems from my p/u from the
same thing. My other vehicle encounters problems sometimes because the
computer is adjusting to the Ethanol mix. The proportions of Ethanol is
up to 10% according to signs on the pumps but it is all over the place,
not to mention the intrusion of water. A lot of people say will you have
to be more selective etc. There is no way you can pull up to a pump and
run an impromptu fuel analysis before fueling on a trip or even
,locally. Ethanol is destructive in a n engine. Ok as long as you trade
every 3 years or 30,000 miles. As People start to keep their veehicles
longer it will become a problem especially since engine oils are now
almost devoid of certain wear agents thanks to EPA.
All of these and more elements add cost all along the line to us the
Citizens. Special interest will make a big buck. We will pay big bucks.
Dollar is shrinking. Jobs are shrinking, Income is sliding in real terms
and everything else is escalating thanks to Special Interests of various
kinds like banks. Government has to be eliminated of the influence of
Special Interests. Ban Lobbying including at the EPA.

Most likely the damage caused by the water, not the alcohol.
It is a known fact that standard engines will run on pure alcohol with
minor mods. There are alternatives to using grains such as wheat. Like
potatoes and apples.

Potatoes could be grown practically anywhere using hydroponics,
practically year round. Including in downtown NYC.


See this article for some fine tuning.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me2.html


<quote>
FUEL INJECTION SYSTEMS

Since some vehicles are equipped with fuel injection rather than
carburetors, we will briefly touch on the use of alcohol with that
system. There are two important factors in a fuel injection setup:
injection timing and control jet diameter. Fortunately - since many
systems now use an electronically controlled timing sequence -
injection timing is not critical in a fuel injected engine. Neither
performance nor economy improve substantially by either advancing or
retarding the injection timing process.

Control jet diameter, on the other hand, is an important factor. If
you increase the size of the control jets (which are the equivalent of
the metering jets in a carburetor), the engine will operate well on
alcohol fuel. An increase of 15-20% is all that's necessary to
accomplish the conversion. (Ignition timing should, of course, be
advanced as explained previously.)

An interesting feature of the fuel injection system is that it doesn't
require any gasoline during the cold weather starting process to fire
the engine up. Since the fuel is injected at a pressure of about 250
PSI, the alcohol fuel is sufficiently vaporized to ignite easily
within the combustion chamber.
</quote>
.

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