Re: Flashing Yellow Arrow

Justin Rhodes wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:38 pm, Andrew Tompkins <andy...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Justin Rhodes wrote:
On Apr 24, 1:40 pm, Andrew Tompkins <andy...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Justin Rhodes wrote:
On Apr 23, 11:24 am, "daryl.gib...@xxxxxxxxx" <daryl.gib...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Utah DOT has added a PDF brochure explaining flashing yellow arrows in
the state:
http://www.udot.utah.gov/main/uconowner.gf?n=200703191029201
I don't like the idea at all...
In a typical green-yellow-red arrow setup, a driver facing a yellow
arrow is in a protective phase that is about to end, so a left turn on
a yellow arrow is still safe.
In a flashing yellow-yellow-red setup, a driver facing the flashing
yellow arrow is apparently cautioned to yield. But when the arrow goes
from flashing yellow, a driver unfamiliar with the signal
configuration might assume it means the same thing as a yellow that
follows green, assume that the turn is protected, and make the turn
against opposing traffic that has a yellow ball and is racing through
the intersection to beat the light.
Effectively what this does is give the solid yellow arrow two
different meanings depending on the signal head configuration. This is
an accident and lawsuit waiting to happen.
Depends on what steady yellow means in a given state. In some states,
steady yellow means stop unless it is unsafe to do so, in which case,
both uses of the steady yellow arrow indicate the same thing.
Really? Take this scenario: A driver facing a yellow left turn arrow
who is too close to stop safely will make a left turn assuming the
turn is protected. Opposing traffic that is facing a yellow ball but
cannot stop in time will also go through the intersection. The story
told to the police will be:
Driver 1: I had the yellow arrow to turn left. I was too close to the
intersection to stop safely, and I entered the intersection on yellow.
Driver 2: I had a yellow light to go straight. I was too close to the
intersection to stop safely, and I entered the intersection on yellow.
Who is at fault?
Given that scenario, explain to me how the solid yellow arrow would
not take on an alternate meaning in that situation.
The meaning of the signal doesn't change based on the actions of the
user. This also doesn't mean that the left turning driver cannot stop
in the intersection after crossing the stop line, then continue with the
left turn when the path is clear. If a driver is going too fast to stop
in the intersection making a left turn, chances are good that the driver
is approaching the intersection unsafely and going too fast to make the
left turn safely. It's a rare event when I'm not on the brake at some
point approaching an intersection for a left turn, and certainly off the
gas.


A turning driver would typically be moving around 10-20 miles per
hour, or 20-30 feet per second. So if said driver has a yellow light
when he is 10 feet out of the intersection, that certainly would not
give any reasonable and safe driver enough time to react, much less
stop safely before entering the intersection.


Distances and speeds don't make any difference. If you cannot physically stop prior to crossing the stop line when the light turns yellow, then it would be considered unsafe to stop for the yellow and you can enter the intersection. This doesn't mean that it is unsafe to stop after crossing the stop line, allowing the conflicting traffic to clear your path and completing your left turn.


Stopping distances and hypothetical defensive driving aside, You're
missing the point. The signal meaning has nothing to do with the
actions of the driver: A solid yellow arrow that follows a solid green
arrow indicates that the end of a protected turn phase is about to
end.

A solid yellow arrow that follows a FYA indicates that the end of a
permissive turn phase is imminent.

This creates two meanings of the solid yellow arrow and causes a
dangerous situation for a driver who faces a yellow arrow and assumes
it's a protected turn.

My point is that, in some states, solid yellow means one thing; that ANY right-of-way capability that you have to enter the intersection (whether it be protected or permissive) is going away to be immediately followed by a solid red. Stop at the stop line unless it is unsafe to do so.

Here, they don't use a solid yellow between solid green and flashing yellow; it just goes straight from solid green to flashing yellow (or straight the other way if it is a lagging left turn).

--
--Andy
.

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